RSPCA - New laws to restrict bow ownership in WA.

[Tomalophicon]

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,26205383-5017004,00.html

[Luke]

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

October 13, 2009 03:30pm

The RSPCA has welcomed tough new laws controlling the sale of bows and crossbows to minors
The RSPCA wrote to police Minister Rob Johnson in August to express its concerns over the lack of regulations on the sale of bows as well as their use in hunting.

Richard Barry, spokesman for the RSPCA in Western Australia said the move was a significant step in the right direction: “We are delighted the Minister has acted on this issue.

"For far too long it has concerned the Society that minors have been able to buy and use these deadly weapons, often on animals and with devastating effect.

“In the past few months we have seen several animals seriously wounded or killed by arrows shot from either a compound bow or a crossbow.

"The most recent involves a horse that was attacked in Norseman using a compound bow and suffered a prolonged and painful death from its wounds.

“Restricting the sale of these deadly weapons is a positive move which we fully endorse.”

Mr Barry said that while the Society was delighted with the proposals it hoped that any future amendments, or legislative changes affecting the use of bows, would include prohibition in hunting.

“The RSPCA has, for a very long time, argued that bows should be banned in hunting. We don’t make a distinction between crossbows or compound bows in this scenario as each are capable of causing animals horrific injuries which we have seen plenty of in recent months.

“We look forward to a time where these powerful weapons are confined to sporting events where the targets are made of straw and their operators are licensed and trained archers. All other scenarios should be consigned to the past.”

[boomstick223]

what a load!!! spose it only takes one person to wreck it for everyone else!

[guysmall]

Agree,again the do-gooders a minoritly but very vocal.A mate was telling me u can't hunt deer with any thing under a 270cal not sure how true this is,such an overkill,we r becoming such a overregulated bull**** state.My mate said the rspca has already finded hunters using a smaller calibre.Ah the power of some ****heads.Basically we are all trying to do the right thing,but as time goes on,with more ******** laws and changes introduced it gets harder.

[Neix]

It was coming for a long time.
In Vic i had to apply for "Chief Comissioners Approval" to obtain a licence.
Its getting way to out of hand but the laws are being put in place to stop the idiots, but at the same time are interefering with us who are doing the right things.
Good and bad in all.

[wtp omen]

Agree,again the do-gooders a minoritly but very vocal.A mate was telling me u can't hunt deer with any thing under a 270cal not sure how true this is,such an overkill,we r becoming such a overregulated bull**** state.My mate said the rspca has already finded hunters using a smaller calibre.Ah the power of some ****heads.

To my knowledge it's true mate :( Although there are several smaller calibre rifles that are more than capable of cleanly killing a deer, as far as I know, .270win is the smallest allowed. Which honestly, I think .270 win is overkill for a lot of deer. It's perfect for that big sambar stag, but way overkill for a young fallow :mad:

I think these people need to take a step back and stop choking us so much. Lets face it, if your a good enough hunter (ie. can get to bow range for a start, then to about 10m) you could take down a deer with a .22wmr, or probably even a .22lr if your shot placement is right.
I wouldn't do it though. I'd be choosing a .243 or something for smaller younger deer, and .270, .300, 30-06 or something for a big stag.



That's the beauty of a bow though. We can have ONE weapon that will serve us well for everything from rabbits, cat's, foxes, etc. right up to scrub bulls, buffs, camels, etc.

Try to find a firearm that is suitable for such a wide range, your NOT going to. Shoot a rabbit it a .270 or a 30-06 and you won't be left with much rabbit at all. And shoot a pig with a .22 and you'll just **** him off :P

And seriously, how are they ever going to fully regulate bows with banning them entirely?? :confused:
It's unfair to seperate compounds from trad bows in any regulations because a trad bow is just as capable of taking game.
With a quick google search anyone can arm themself with the basics of making a longbow, strings, arrows, etc. Make 5-10 and most people with have something that's at least shootable by then.
You can't truly regulate something that has been handmade by hunters for how many years now??? A weapon that can be made entirely of natural materials is not easily regulated.
We may as well ban sticks too, or at least require a license to pick one of these deadly weapons up off the ground :rolleyes:


Seeing as this is all about animals suffering, I guess the next and most logical step is to get everyone out in the bush, trap every last preditor out there then file thier teeth flat and tell them to eat plants instead, or kill any animal that kills other animals to eat :confused:

Come on, things are getting really stupid now, where is it all going to end? Is it going to end? Or are they just going to keep fighting until every last human doesn't kill an animal again??
Then what happens, they might step back and think "Hey, wait. This isn't the blissful garden of eden we set out to achieve. We aimed to create heaven on earth but got left with hell"

They narrow mindedly want the killing of ALL animals to stop. But do they even realise what's going to happen then?? It's not our native animals that are killing the introduced ones, it's the other way around. :mad:

Last point.. Why is it that when these AL crowd kick and scream, protest and burn things, they often get thier way.
But if we decided to kick and scream and protest and burn things, I'm sure hunting would be banned straight away.

[Recurve 5]

Like I told you guys in an earlier thread, keeping your head down and minimizing your profile only works for so long.

The Anti's will get round to you sooner or later.

Either the ABA gets active on these issues or we're going to lose everything.

Lobbying isn't enough either - you have to set up the Association infrastructure to support your position.

That means an ethical hunter training program which must at least include:
Hunting and bush-craft skills
Hunter Ethics
Environmental guidelines and policy
Hunter and public Safety
Support for State licensing of hunting and hunters on designated public land

You might think the above is a little paranoid, but I think it's just plain and simple pragmatism!

[Chuditch]

Agree with Neix, something must be done to stop the people who injure animals with crossbows and compound bows, at the same time these new restrictions will affect the rest of us who are doing the right thing.

I wonder what the new restrictions will look like exactly.... If minors are prohibited from owning and using bows for hunting, full stop, then that could have serious implications for the passing on of the tradition to the next generation.

Breaking the links between the young and the old in the family is a very effective way to attack a culture.

Sound familiar to anyone?

[Luke]

something must be done to stop the people who injure animals with crossbows and compound bows, at the same time these new restrictions will affect the rest of us who are doing the right thing.

Hand out harsher penalties to the idiots who get caught... throw them in the clink, take away their gear and fine them a lot of $'s... that'll go a long way in my opinion.

Changing laws that affect the rest of us does squat.

[Luke]

By the way there are some very good comments posted after the article on the news site. Almost all of them are very encouraging for us.

[Jordan_Brisbane]

They really do need to make the individual punishment greater to scare people enough that they wouldn't think twice about acting stupidly with any firearm. But regulating the use of weapons brings money into the goverment in the form of licences and PTA's so of course they'll just say everyone needs a licence. So far its cost me just under $200 just to apply for my crossbow licence and then it'll be another $40 for the PTA and then $600 finally for the crossbow.

[fallowhunter]

I fear the RSPCA more than the Anti`s.

Does anyone know why deer hunting with bow and arrow in Tasmania was banned?

Cheers Steve.

[xforcebaby]

Alright alright, lets not sit around and talk about it, anyone got any practical advice on how to make a start in talking to the Government about finding a happy medium? Let me know I'll start writing, ringing, etc.

[Recurve 5]

It does no good for individuals to try and get things done in isolation.

This is where the Association must step in and co-ordinate effort.

As the "Australian Bowhunters Association", moving to protect the legal rights of archers and the maintenance of their members hunting rights within Australia, should be one of prime functions of the association. They should bring the resources and coordination effort to bear and develop a credible position on our behalf.

You might as well throw crumpets at the issue unless you have the right backing.

[Tomalophicon]

It does no good for individuals to try and get things done in isolation.

This is where the Association must step in and co-ordinate effort.

As the "Australian Bowhunters Association", moving to protect the legal rights of archers and the maintenance of their members hunting rights within Australia, should be one of prime functions of the association. They should bring the resources and coordination effort to bear and develop a credible position on our behalf.

You might as well throw crumpets at the issue unless you have the right backing.

Bad way to look at things. I do agree that the ABA should be blazing the way to try and combat this issue, though 2 or 3 thousand vocal and active objectors to the changes isn't an 'individual' effort.

[AndyD]

Have to agree entirely with Recurve5 - as indviduals we must stand up and be counted but our collective political power needs to be harnessed \ headed up by a identifible body (ABA - I suppose or The Shooters Party)

Without a direct impact to their votes, pollies will always swing with the "main stream opinon".

Unfotunately "main stream" opion of hunters seems to be fairly low... I've read on here and other sites that this is not the case in the US.

Do we need some sort of campaign at a grass roots level to educate on why we love the sport, how it actually helps with the feral issue and the fact that we use the animals for meat, skins, etc?
I find as a bow hunter that the majority of people get a little "quiet" if I answer what my hobby \ pastime is. When I expand on hunting and mention I use a bow to do so the majority of people seem to get quite interested. I've also noticeed as someone who's returned to the pastime after a 17 year break that negative responses have become more common.

My favourite response is my daughters "kill those nasty pigs - but don't hurt a deer or bunny Daddy" :P

[Recurve 5]

Tomalophicon, you have to realize what you're up against. The anti's are extremely well funded and organized. They have the money and backing to organize large campaigns and have lawyers on staff, who go over everything they officially put out with a fine tooth comb.

In many cases they are cross funded by other activist organizations and have made it their business to snuggle in and to take the apparent high moral ground as "Conservationists". As I have said before, they have nothing in common with a conservationist - but this is politics and both animal rights and conservation organizations seek to use the other for mutual political benefit.

They like nothing better than to take on individuals with no published recsearch, data or organizational backing. Whilst they are against hurting animals, they have no qualms about destroyng people, and they'd look upon an individual making noise as easy meat.

I haven't been back long - but I'm beginning to think all this has all been left too late and that we have missed the opportunity to form an alliance with the conservation movement. I think the anti's may have taken advantage of that powerful alliance and will now be very difficult to dislodge.

At this point I think we could do with some official input to this thread by the ABA - what do you think fellas?

[Luke]

;)

http://www.aussiebowhunter.com/showthread.php?t=22468

[Recurve 5]

Nice sentiment Luke - but let's not forget that that the combatant and everybody he represents is gonna die!

I'd feel a lot better about the guy's chances if he had a little help - maybe even a lawyer lol!

[centrelink]

My support rides on the full conditions they are passing.

I for one think that using a high strength compound bow by a minor should under the same restrictions as a gun. If all they are suggesting is that a minor needs an adult with them when operating a bow then I'm all for it.

[Luke]

And what about a "high strength" bent stick mate? Should we stop them chopping saplings down and making self bows too? How will you police that?

[kal_mike]

The RSPCA want hunting banned and they are starting in WA and starting with bows (well they started years ago with ducks etc). It is getting to the point where the difference between an "idiot" and a bowhunter as we know it is very small (in the eyes of the media they are one in the same).

I am afraid that bowhunting in WA will be illegal soon I certainly won't be doing any hunting, I don't need to become another test case. States with real hunting legislation (e.g NSW) are the only ones that have a chance in my opinion.

[Antonio Lara]

Be very careful what you wish for. If they stop a minor on the grounds of crulety, which is what they are proposing then it will be a very simple step to ban everyone. This is their strategy and they are not stupi in how they go about it. We are talking losing a free liberty here and I for one will volunteer up not one inch. If they stop a minor then you will see the likes of Hunt or be Hunted, PSE Tony, Woodstocka, TD, DJH, BowhunterBrad and many many other great juniors that we have on here disappear and turn into what then? Play video games and get up to no good. These young guys are the future of our sport and if we cut them off at the grass roots then we are done for without a fight.

This law has not been changed as yet. It is only a proposal despite the sneaky reporting technique used. It has to be passed in parliament so we still have a chance to make a stand. Does anyone know how to make one of those internet petition. i think it is high we get one going and put on every hunting website you can think of and get as many people to sign it as you can. Can anyone help here on this front as I think it will be a positive move

[Luke]

For it to carry any weight Ant it needs to be on a .gov site as put up by an MP.

[Antonio Lara]

if we get thousands of signatures on something it has got to count for something. Does the ABA not have access to government departments or the Shooters and Fishers party can support it

[Luke]

Here is the email addy of the minister mentioned in the article:
rob.johnson@mp.wa.gov.au

[Antonio Lara]

Good I am going to write tonight

By the way here are a couple of links to some of the arguments that they have had with antis in the states. Some interesting points to be taken

http://lists.envirolink.org/pipermail/ar-news/Week-of-Mon-20031103/009705.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226132040AAX2cT0

[centrelink]

I was a kid not that long ago, I grew up on a farm. I hunted with an aluminium pole with a huge screw beaten into the end of it....Many feral cats met their match in our blackberry bushes....

I made my own bows, but nothing close to what I would deem likely to kill an animal...let alone fly an arrow over 20 meters.

I hunted with our 4'10 shotguns regularly (under supervision) and a few times out culling roo's with a magnum (again under supervision).

I'm not saying that its right under the cruelty to animals thing, but as a farm kid....I know I would have gotten myself into **** if my parents ever aloud me to purchase a compound bow when I was younger and let me hunt without their supervision.

You need to show ID to purchase a knife...or even a can of spraypaint....If anything I think bows have been an over site in this area and we are lucky that its been this long before they realised it.

Don't paint me as a traitor, just offering a second view on the matter.

[GOATIT]

It does no good for individuals to try and get things done in isolation.

This is where the Association must step in and co-ordinate effort.

As the "Australian Bowhunters Association", moving to protect the legal rights of archers and the maintenance of their members hunting rights within Australia, should be one of prime functions of the association. They should bring the resources and coordination effort to bear and develop a credible position on our behalf.

You might as well throw crumpets at the issue unless you have the right backing.

TO ALL

If you are a member of the ABA then it might be time to start righting letters to them expressing your concerns about the situation at hand if we don't let them know how strongly we feel then i doubt they will move quickly to nip this in the bud, we are members and they are our voice, lets get it heard not later but now before it is to late. if you are not a member of the ABA maybe it's time to join and consolidate our strengths

[xforcebaby]

Recurve 5, Ive already sent my email off to the ABA Executive Director regarding standing up.

[Tonytbts]

folks, this is precisely what I was referring to when I said in the other thread that we would all be tarred by the horse killing incident.

People have asked how to respond. What you do and how effective it might be is anybody's guess.

From my experience in the firearms fights, if you are in WA:
- petitions are of limited value, they are better than nothing but do not really return on the effort involved;
- write sane, moderate letters to the Minister, the Premier, your local member, and any MP's in marginal electorates.
- Individually written letters are better than form letters.
- keep the letters short, and to the point. They care about your vote, not about the ten thousand years your family has hunted, and all the great memories that has given you;
- acknowledge that some people misuse any tool. Do not join in the bashing in the hope of distancing yourself from the bad guy, that is counter productive.
- ask for a meeting with your local MP.
- fight EVERY erosion of the liberty to own and use your tool of choice. Every step we take backwards is one the anti's do not have to fight for. They work by wearing away - why help them? They are NOT well funded or particularly numerous, but are media savvy and play to a receptive public.

If you are outside WA, the response should ideally be coordinated by a National body.

In my experience, the restrictions on kids participating is seriously harming shooting sports - the pool of new young members is very shallow indeed. Regardless of whether this proposed law simply prohibits minors BUYING a bow, it will eventually evolve into a prohibition on kids USING bows. Once that is achieved, the anti's just have to wait for the bowhunters to get old and die...

Tony

[Luke]

Email sent.

[special]

This has been coming for a while now..Its not just the Antis and RSPCA that wants it either...Non hunting Toxophilites(and there are many)tend to blame everything on the hunters...

[Recurve 5]

Here are some suggestions I've put on the ABA sponsor thread. I hope they prove helpful. At the end f the day, I'm quite willing to provide help if it's part of a considered group effort - and I think this is a reasonable direction to take:

I’ve read what you all have to say – and have a few comments to make which I hope will be considered helpful.



Volunteers.

Even in the US, a lot of the impetus for what goes on in the hunting lobby is generated by volunteers within organizations. The salaried folk are carefully chosen, because the funding is limited (nobody likes paying huge association fees) and these salaried professional are expected to provide a big bang for their bucks. A popular approach is recruit part time professionals who are semi retired, but who are happy to keep their brains ticking over on an expenses only basis (plus the odd dinner or two). These kinds of people can often be found within the hiring organization – and I’d be very surprised if the ABA didn’t have the odd legally trained person or a researcher of two in its ranks. (You may even find a biologist if you’re lucky)!


Program Organization

The secret of success is to get the correct relationship between the national body and it’s State affiliates in place – right down to recruiting delegates at club level. In this age of computer technology and the internet, interstate meetings can be held over the web and national policy can be presented and voted upon quickly and efficiently. This kind of approach will provide a huge saving on project costs.


Finding Like Minded Organizations

Once you have a team in place (at federal, state and club levels), you then liaise with other organizations having similar goals (Field & Game Associations, NRA, SSAA etc) and you look to develop a common coordinated position. It’s also often possible to share resources and expertise - and this not only strengthens you political influence, but also prevents duplication of effort or working at cross purposes with each other!


Developing Policy

The organization must then develop intelligent policy and back it up with activity and accreditation programs to demonstrate that we walk the walk just as well as we talk the talk.
This is the point where you must spend a little money on professional help – but it’s absolutely necessary if you want your policies and the research that backs them to be credible. As I suggested earlier however, you can sometimes reduce these costs by recruiting from your own ranks.


Engage Government and Main line Environmental Organizations.

If you don’t get a few of these folks on your side, you’re sunk!
If you’ve put in place all the above however, then you stand a fighting chance of winning at least a few influential people over. Be warned however that these folks will pay scant attention to propaganda without substance – so this is where your walk the walk activities and proper research pay dividends.

6. Get Something Happening.
Put policy forward and get political friends to help you propose trials to prove your point.
Get the conservation community involved and on your side. The eradication of a particularly destructive feral pest in a sensitive area of public land might be a good start!
Work your butts off and get the whole membership involved in making the trials work and proving your point.

7. Keep up Momentum
Don’t stop – once you’ve achieved one objective - move onto another. Take small achievable steps and don’t look for politicians to make brave and wide-sweeping decisions – they won’t!

I have to say that in looking at the ABA’s website, it doesn’t seem to put much up front in terms of defining itself and what it stands for. There are only passing references to bow hunting accreditation and very little in the way of defining what that program actually entails (program outline). Not enough is said about a commitment to conservation (and absolute must these days) or about the other associated skills that can be learned from the process of becoming an accredited hunter. With the resurgent popularity of T.V. shows highlighting bush craft and survival skills (Ray Mears and the like), the Association should be looking to capitalize on this popularity and advertize the fact that we can teach these skills. I recon it would pull in young new members in droves!

Anyway, enough said – comments (both for and against) are welcome.

[kal_mike]

This has been coming for a while now..Its not just the Antis and RSPCA that wants it either...Non hunting Toxophilites(and there are many)tend to blame everything on the hunters...

I think this stand will bite them when they have to get a licence for thier target bows.

[wtp omen]

I can't believe what's going on with this whole hunting debate, things are seriously out of hand, and the whole situation with the antis is really ****ed up :mad:

They seem to base thier whole arguaments on "cruelty to animals", that is absolute bull **** and they know it!!

If it's cruel for a bullet or arrow to zip through an animal and for it to die quickly like that, then how about the livestock industry...

Quite often, the way an animal dies when it's hunted is not all that painful or stressful, an animal often doesn't even realise it's been hit.

If that's cruel and the livestock industry (which provides the meat most of THEM eat) isn't, then something is seriously wrong.
I helped out marking calves today and every single one of them were more stressed out BEFORE they went in, than pretty much every animal I've seen shot while hunting.
I fail to see how it's cruel for an arrow to zip through an animal's vitals and for it to die soon after from blood loss, while it's ok for every cattle farmer to herd thier calves in and cut thier nuts out.

The calves didn't like being tipped over, having thier nuts cut out or having the end of one ear sliced off.
I'm sure the animals we hunt don't like having an arrow go through them.
And I'm sure they like it even less to fall victim to an introduced preditor.


Nature is FAR more cruel than anything any real hunter does to an animal.
They carry on as though we slowly torture the animals to death, while really that couldn't be further from the truth.


I'm a conservationist and proud of it. Yes, I care about animals. Yes, I like animals. Yes, I hate to see any animal suffer. And yes, I'm a hunter...

I guess that last statement only makes sense to other hunters?

[bobzila]

how about we band together and make tbga a hunting organization to protest the new laws and fight for the privilege to hunt with a bow. if we all get stuck in there are more then enough members to bugg the hell out of members of parliament just like the hippies do.

[Dturf]

Utter twaddle,
Seriously.

I made comment:

In the past few days (days, not months) far more animals have been killed and injured through collisions with cars and traffic. Far more than any shooting related incidents. Why is the RSPCA not up in arms and trying to ban driving vehicles?
It must also be noted that in the last few months many many animals have been killed with compound bows. Hundreds have that never make the news.
Beacuse 99.99% of these are feral and pest animals taken legitamitely and humanely. The contribution that bowhunters and hunters in general make in removing pest species from areas otherwise inaccessible to conservation work is invaluable in keeping our beautiful country pure and free from introduced pests.
I am disapointed that such a biased and clearly ill researched article has been allowed to reach the public.
A little bit of research into the alleged animal cruelty case concerning the horse in Norseman would have revealed that the horse was indeed a wild feral animal and the man was not in breach of any laws regarding the humane culling of an introduced species.
A little bit of background research goes a long way.
And if we ban these 'deadly', 'powerful' and 'devastating' weapons it is only fair to do the same to other weapons that do similar or greater damage to our fragile environment. So I don't expect the RSPCA to be complaining when they lose their cars, bikes and boats.
I totally agree with the invaluable work the RSPCA does in the prevention of cruelty to animals, but they need to remember who and what they are really fighting against.




And I'm all for any group action on this issue. This can't continue.

[Schiesser]

I think any correspondence needs to directly address the RSPCA's issues. Every single argument they make must be either countered or mitigated.

Is there any studies on the killing efficiency of a broad head vs a rifle? I remember seeing a TV doco on this when I was a kid (yes, years and years ago). If there is a study we can quote that shows hunting with a bow is little different to a rifle (in terms of "animal cruelty"), then it's easy to circumvent these arguments.

The article cites cases of animal cruelty in the past few months - however, what percentage of these cases actually involved minors? It's a savvy move on their part - targeting minors first - minors don't vote. However I would think they'll be after the adults in the next phase.

Also I think that every Australian archery association would be interested the restriction on sales of archery equipment to minors. After all - there isn't a whole lot of difference between a hunting bow and a target-bow, I'm sure both could be used for hunting. And if the RSPCA in all it's wisdom wants to ban kids with hunting bows, then next they'll be after target bows too.

FWIW, I think Recurve5 is suggesting the best response. An individual has little push against a lobby group like the RSPCA. We need to get organised, or it will be divide and conquer, again.

Maybe it's time for a Bow Shooters Party.

regards,
-Schiesser

[bobzila]

Is there any studies on the killing efficiency of a broad head vs a rifle?
-Schiesser

when opening the state forest in nsw Jamie mallet was the first bow hunter to be let in with a vet and RSPCA animal cruelty investergator (spelling) Jamie shot a goat in front of both of them the goat went down in second and was deemed a humane kill that is why bows are a part of the R license in nsw.

[Schiesser]

I for one think that using a high strength compound bow by a minor should under the same restrictions as a gun. If all they are suggesting is that a minor needs an adult with them when operating a bow then I'm all for it.

I respectfully disagree.

For starters what's "High Strength"? over 20 pounds? 40? 60? 80?

Any kid that wanted to hunt would use whatever was available. This would mean he would be out targeting bunnies with a 20# and a target point. Not a good look.

Furthermore your statement equates a bow with a rife. The box for .22 bullets says "dangerous within 2km" - No bow is dangerous at this sort of range. And that's one of the lowest caliber rifles. Sure a good broadhead is deadly, but in the same way as a your Gran's carving-knife. A bow is not a rifle (even a crossbow is not), it should not be legislated as such.

I don't want to be in the position that I am required to show a licence to buy arrows, and allow the police into my home (on their whim) to inspect that I'm keeping my bow in an approved strong-box, separate to the strong-box for the arrows.

We don't have to have legislation governing every little thing.

cheers,
-Schiesser

[Schiesser]

If you are a member of the ABA then it might be time to start righting letters to them expressing your concerns about the situation at hand if we don't let them know how strongly we feel then i doubt they will move quickly to nip this in the bud [...]

And if you're not a member, maybe consider becoming one.

I'm not, but this move by the RSPCA has prompted me into action.
This is one of those use-it or lose-it scenarios.

-Schiesser

[ozbowhunter 15]

I was a kid not that long ago, I grew up on a farm. I hunted with an aluminium pole with a huge screw beaten into the end of it....Many feral cats met their match in our blackberry bushes....

I made my own bows, but nothing close to what I would deem likely to kill an animal...let alone fly an arrow over 20 meters.

I hunted with our 4'10 shotguns regularly (under supervision) and a few times out culling roo's with a magnum (again under supervision).

I'm not saying that its right under the cruelty to animals thing, but as a farm kid....I know I would have gotten myself into **** if my parents ever aloud me to purchase a compound bow when I was younger and let me hunt without their supervision.

You need to show ID to purchase a knife...or even a can of spraypaint....If anything I think bows have been an over site in this area and we are lucky that its been this long before they realised it.

Don't paint me as a traitor, just offering a second view on the matter.


so us juniors should have to miss out?, because some ****head adults decided to shoot some kangaroos with field points and some other bloke (again an adult) decided to film a horse dieing and show it to a greeny. Yeah makes sense us juniors miss out :rolleyes:

I was a kid not that long ago, I grew up on a farm. I hunted with an aluminium pole with a huge screw beaten into the end of it....Many feral cats met their match in our blackberry bushes....


mmm yeah sounds so much more ethical than using a 70 pound compound bow and a razor sharp broadhead :rolleyes:

[ENGLISH]

This is what i commented ,i dont know if it will be published but if it is i hope it helps people see it from a different perspective.

Im 27 ,I have No criminal records ,No driving offences, I work every day and pay tax.
Im what I class as a normal person and all this is largely to do with the fact that I was brought up with guns and knives hunting from a very young age and taught to respect these tools for what they are ,from having these things from a young age I was taught right from wrong which in turn has caried throughout every aspect of my life .
From having a gun licence from a young age I realised if I were to get in trouble with the law I would have a lot to lose ,my connection to the outdoors ( and the animals so many of you who are against hunting talk about but probably very rarely see) and the respect of my father who I have hunted with all my life.
I've moved from England to Australia so I can hunt with a bow and arrow as it is illegal in England, it would be a massive shame if people listen to the views of a few do gooders and not make there own decisions on whats really wrong in society,by stopping young kids from having bows your stopping them learning respect for these hunting weapons and you'll be taking away from them the chance of being a part of nature and the natural order of life and death ,possibly turning them on to something worse.
Todays society has become to far disjointed from nature and so forget that we are animals too and that we are at the top of the food chain carrying on the tradition that ALL our ancestors have done since the begining of time ,and if it wasnt for them doing that we wouldnt be here.
If you banned bows ,those of us that hunt because its part of our lives will hunt with guns and by doing that more animals will be killed be it for food or reducing population as a gun greatly tips the odds in favour of the hunter where as a bow needs more patients and greater skill in getting closer to the animal to take the shot and tips the odds back in favour of the animal .This is the challenge us bowhunters love.

cheers
Mark.

[Luke]

Yours is published Mark.

Bobzila, yours too.

[centrelink]

It just seems to me like everyone thats responded to my post is blowing it way out of proportion.

1) The article states laws about minors PURCHASING WEAPONS
2) How does it make sense that you have to be 18 to buy a blunt knife but you can waltse into a store and buy an 80pound bow and broadheads without showing proof of age.

Im just saying....Like I said all in all I am surprised this law hasn't been passed earlier.

Again....not that I agree with it, I'm against virtually all forms of weapons control. But compared to existing laws being able to purchase bows as a minor seems to be totally out of whack.

[LAMBO]

I think it all comes down to the fact that legislation does not curb stupidity.

[Luke]

It just seems to me like everyone thats responded to my post is blowing it way out of proportion.

1) The article states laws about minors PURCHASING WEAPONS
2) How does it make sense that you have to be 18 to buy a blunt knife but you can waltse into a store and buy an 80pound bow and broadheads without showing proof of age.

Im just saying....Like I said all in all I am surprised this law hasn't been passed earlier.

Again....not that I agree with it, I'm against virtually all forms of weapons control. But compared to existing laws being able to purchase bows as a minor seems to be totally out of whack.

So if, at point of sale I have NO intention of hunting with the bow (as a minor) I should still be allowed to purchase it right? If we look at Qld regs (as an example) that stipulate a bow is a piece of sporting equipment until used with intention to kill, then I should be right shouldn't I? I'm just purchasing a piece of sporting equipment :confused:

This is just the tip of the can of worms they will have to try and regulate... utter poppycock if you ask me. :confused:

[centrelink]

I honestly see this turning out to be just like alcohol, spraycans and knives....show ID please kkthnxbi.

Regardless of if you intend to use the vodka as a science experiment or drink it you still need to show ID :-P

[Luke]

What about ebay sales? What about second hand sales? What about existing owners of bows? What about those with bows made before they had serial numbers? What about trad bows? Is it not a hunting bow if it's shiny and sparkly?

Big can of worms hey.

[CPal]

Personaly, I'd say to look at where the greens and rspca get their power, from the media. Most people seem to have the news as their religion, and believe every word said on it. What we have to understand is that the media is run by people and people have agendas, which influence how they portray stuff. I'd say one of the best ways to fight all this junk is to communicate, and to show people the facts. I leave how up to you.

[Johny Quick Draw]

Can a minor even draw back a highpowered bow, i don't think so.

I sent mine in but i'm not that confident it will be printed.

Might have to stick to recruiting.

[wtp omen]

What about ebay sales? What about second hand sales? What about existing owners of bows? What about those with bows made before they had serial numbers? What about trad bows? Is it not a hunting bow if it's shiny and sparkly?

Big can of worms hey.


I agree mate, it's just too hard to regulate. It takes a certain level of skill and know-how to make a bow and arrows. But it takes a LOT more, as well as much more expensive tooling, to make a firearm. Firearms can be fairly well regulated because very few people are capable of making thier own guns and ammunition.
Compared to making a gun from the ground up, making a bow is childs play.

What happens first? They manage to ban the sale of bows..
Then what? Us hunters start building trad bows..
And then?? You wind up in court over any old bent stick with a string running from one end to the other :confused:


I'm really over this and I fear that we are somehow losing the battle.
I fear that we are losing the battle because certain highly narrow minded and opinionated people do not like what we do, and they seem to know just how to word things and which details to leave out, so that people who are uncapable of 'reading between the lines' instantly believe that they are right and agree with them :(


I've not yet encountered one single piece of writing that stands against hunting, which bases thier arguament on facts, statistics, etc. Every single piece of writing I have encountered which opposes hunting are based heavily on emotion, opinion and heavily skewed half-truths.


You lot dislike hunting?? Well guess what, I dislike protesting and vandalism..

[Johny Quick Draw]

I dislike some poor old battler having to pay some large sum of money to get his four legged mate out of the rspca

[Neix]

Today I was driving home from Work, when I heard on the Radio,
"The man responcible for the Shooting of 4 Kangaroo's with a Bow and arrow has been found guilty of Cruelty to Animals and another charge relating to native animals.
He was sentenced to 12 months jail,
He has chose to appeal his sentence.
I saw this moron on the news when they arrested him, He had no shame in his face except smiled and ashed his cigarette out the window.


At least people will see his getting sentenced for 12 months / 1 Year, but even then do you think we should punish him more,
I believe we "Black List" him. Criminals with Records, are Black Listed from obtaining a firearm, or anything in that area,
Do the same, but how do we without a licencing policy,
we really can't keep idiots out of our sport, but we can Give our selfs as a community of the TBGA the colours that we are Against this sort of behaviour, and we will not stand for it, We respect what we have in Australia, and we Have beautiful Fauna and native wildlife.
Cant do anything more that that,
Luke and Mods here have done a great job Promoting our selfs in a good image with our posters in our forum, And Letters to News centres about how we don't encourage such acts when one has taken place.
Fund raising for Flying Doctors. Us as one community should make the effort to change the image we currently have.

[Johny Quick Draw]

They printed me wwoooooaaaahhhh.

[Luke]

Interesting angle Chinka.

[Luke]

I have just gone straight to the top and have emailed Mr Rudd himself.

Why waste time on the middle men?

[Schiesser]

1) The article states laws about minors PURCHASING WEAPONS
2) How does it make sense that you have to be 18 to buy a blunt knife but you can waltse into a store and buy an 80pound bow and broadheads without showing proof of age.

FIRST: I understand your position, I'm arguing because I don't like it. This is not a personal attack, it is an attack against your argument (please don't take it personally!). The point you have made is what a thousand other people will say. So I think it's important to talk about it.

Now ... I see your point: it doesn't make sense that a pre-18 can't buy a knife, but can buy arguably more dangerous implements. But it's the knife law that's the bugbear. (BTW: WTF do apprentice butchers and chefs do for tools?) Go into your local hardware store and checkout the stock - mine has shovels, axes, brush-hooks and scythes. Weapon or Tool? Restricted - no. Ok these are not projectile-based: what about a nail gun - are sales of those restricted too? (I dunno to be honest)

Also I'm arguing because it's the thin edge of the wedge. First the crossbows went, then the knives, then the bow went, and then the baseball bats (no-one plays baseball anyway right?), then carving knives > 12cm, then ... then ... then ... but at no time did anyone stand up and say - "Hey this is ridiculous!" - just because the new stupid laws are quite like the old stupid laws, doesn't make any of them good laws.

Once kids have to show ID to buy bows & arrows, then adults will, and then we'll need licences. Every time you buy or do something, the government is recording something. And the next time some idiot shoots a horse or 'roo with a target arrow, the record of you owning a bow will pop out of the registry, and you'll be the one doing some explaining. Public freedoms are very important to me, and so is my privacy. As soon as things are banned or licensed, both freedom and privacy are gone.

Ok - I've gone off the deep end in that last paragraph, my apologies, I'm getting upset about this whole RSPCA thing. Maybe it has to do with the time the RSPCA turned up, guns blazing, at our house because the vet put a bucket over our dogs head (so she couldn't lick her stitches out), and the neighbours complained.

Or maybe it's because I'm frightened of the nanny state turning into the police state.



All of the previous discourse about minors and bows - you could equally substitute "baseball bat" into any sentence, and it still as justifiable -> using sporting equipment as a weapon. I'd take a wager, that of all the common assaults in the past year, there is at least a 10-fold percent more were committed with a baseball bat than a bow.

It's the banning of quasi-weapons that's the problem:
Knives, Shovels, Baseball Bats, Bows, Axe Handles, Broomsticks, Knitting Needles
... where does it end?

But I digress ...

The mandate of the RSPCA is to prevent "Curelty" to animals.

They want to restrict ALL sales of bows to minors (note: not just knife-like broadheads), just in case a minor might take a bow and maybe hunt an animal, and perhaps not do the job humanely. That's a lot of maybe's to demand legislation.


Ok, I'll calm down now...

(Once again: Thanks to Centrelink for bringing up this important point)

[Antonio Lara]

Here is what i have written to Rob Johnson, the minister involed in this issue:

Good evening Rob

I am writing to say that I am both saddened and disappointed in the new proposal in regards to bows in Western Australia. I must firstly say that yes, there have been some unsavoury incidents, but this happens with in all forms of human life and the percentage of bow incidents is extremely low in comparison to other activities that go unreported in our modern world.
In regards to the statements made by the RSPCA, I must I am very surprised how narrow minded an organisation can be. All of these statements made about cruelty and the like are some of the most ill informed statements I have ever read. To be cruel to an animal you have to go out with the intent to be cruel. To hunt an animal with whatever weapon you choose, you are going out to make a quick an ethical kill. I will never stand by and watch another person be cruel to an animal, but to say that a bowhunter intentionally goes out to be cruel is quite simply a lie.
Did you know that there are literally millions of archers in America that hunt with a bow and arrow and time and time again it has been scientifically proven that a bow kills with minimal pain and in very quick time. Why, because we live on the other side of the pacific, does the bow and arrow suddenly become an inappropriate piece of equipment to be used for hunting? Pure ignorance is what it is.

I have hunted with a bow and arrow for a long time now, and never ever do I set out in order to maim. In fact I have learnt more about animal habits than most people, such is my appreciation and passion of the wildlife in Australia and their environment. My goal is to make a clean kill and then utilise my game in every way possible. I do not kill on every outing, for one it doesn't always work out that way when hunting, and two, I am not a blood lusting hunter that certain sections of certain organisations would have you believe. I am in fact a manager in a very big organisation and everybody at my workplace, and in my private life, know that I hunt and they all know that I have total empathy for the creatures that I choose to chase.

I am also the owner and editor of Bowhunter Australia magazine and assist in the running of a web site called The Bowhunters Group of Australia. We have so many promising juniors on our site whose whole lives are devoted to hunting and they absolutely love writing about it. I have even had a few letters written to me from very happy parents who have been thankful for my help in improving a lot of these young boys writing and social skills. So much so in fact, that they are even improving in their school work. To take this away from them would be a great injustice. There are so many bad things out there that some kids get into. Taking bowhunting and archery away from our youth is just one more good decent pastime that they will miss out on. What would you rather see them do, be outside enjoying the outdoors, being healthy and learning a thing or two about the environment, or have them watching DVD’s and staying on the computer at all hours looking at and playing who knows what?

There are hundreds of thousands of hunters in Australia and to ignore the industry we uphold is bordering on ridiculous. The quicker the governments see what we contribute to the economy and the environment, the quicker these nonsense ideas will be knocked on the head and we will be left to maintain one of the few civil liberties we have left in this country.

I am getting tired of living in a hypocrisy where the value of an animal is placed well above that of a human life. I see so much pain and suffering around me in the human world, and yet so much money is thrown at causes, such as in this case with the attempt to ban the hunting of feral pests, when in fact it is actually a required pastime, as we have no apex predators here in Australia. We do not have any of the types of predators such as bears, wolves and tigers, which inhabit our introduced animal’s homelands. Then we have foxes and cats that have gone feral, who have no place here either, as they annihilate all of our unique small creatures that have had minimal pressure from predators due to the evolution of our land.

The game we hunt is here on earth to provide food. It is designed to be killed and be eaten by predators that show no concern for an animal’s welfare. Please stop this humanisation of what is essentially a part of the food cycle here on earth. This is why meat producing, grazing animals are prolific breeders. They are there to feed the apex predators at the top of the food chain and they continue to exist due to their ability to breed. The predators, on the other hand, are there to keep their numbers in check, as there certainly can be too many in one place and they can starve themselves out by overeating whilst damaging the natural environment beyond repair. Due to the lack of predators here, it is the duty of us humans to be the apex hunters in order to do this.

How smart a decision can it be to ban hunting when the control of feral pests would still have to happen and it would cost taxpayers millions, upon millions of dollars to get it done by the governments in any case? Here you have a readymade group of responsible, taxpaying citizens, who are forking out their own money and putting even more back into the economy through sales tax, travel, equipment, accommodation etc... more than willing to assist in the control of these pests out of their own fruition and you want to shut the door on them due to the ill informed and over the top opinions by groups of people who have nothing else on their agenda, but to take away something from a lot of people who really get a lot out of what they do. It just doesn’t make any sense at all to me.

Thank you for your time and I do hope you see that there is a lot to be lost in the prohibition of what really is an enjoyable, respectful and healthy pastime enjoyed by many, many good people.

Kind regards

[Schiesser]

[...] You want to shut the door on [archers] due to the ill informed and over the top opinions by groups of people who have nothing else on their agenda, but to take away something from a lot of people who really get a lot out of what they do. It just doesn’t make any sense at all to me.

Good work mate - that one paragraph sums it all up.

But when talking to a politician, you should say "voters" rather than "people" ;)

cheers,
-Schiesser

[Tomalophicon]

I have just gone straight to the top and have emailed Mr Rudd himself.

Why waste time on the middle men?

I don't really know much about the political system (I really should learn) but I thought that State Governments have power to make and change laws without the interference of Federal Government. And therefore this minister is not a middle man. I'm probably wrong, and good on you for mailing the PM. I've got a feeling he grew up on a farm.

[Luke]

He does have a rural back ground.

From Shooters Party Website
PM Rudd Proud Of His Farm Heritage

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has revealed that growing up on a farm left him with a love of horse riding and clay target shooting.
“I grew up on a farm where there were guns around. I like shooting when I get a chance to go out and do sporting clays and I like riding a horse,“ he told the Fairfax Radio Network.
The prime minister said while he had not done any shooting in recent years and he was not good at it, he had shot sporting clays in the past.
“I haven’t done it (sporting clays) for a couple of years but I used to be a patron of one of the shooting clubs in my electorate,“ Mr Rudd revealed.



I didn't contact him for a specific purpose, but figured, why the heck not ;)

[Ben S]

Personaly, I'd say to look at where the greens and rspca get their power, from the media. Most people seem to have the news as their religion, and believe every word said on it. What we have to understand is that the media is run by people and people have agendas, which influence how they portray stuff. I'd say one of the best ways to fight all this junk is to communicate, and to show people the facts. I leave how up to you.

Funnily enough I've just had a good long yarn to a mate who's a prominent Greens member in QLD, basically to get some advice on a path forward. CPal - you've pretty much nailed it with his most important point. I'll try my best to summarise what he recommends:


Respond through the media. A well thought-out and well constructed press release to the same WA newspaper would probably be the best short term response. If we combine thoughts and put something that comes across with all the facts and an intelligent tone, this will probably reap the best results. This will reach far and wide, influencing the ideals of the VOTERS. A thousand letters to the minister will not have the same impact as a media release read by hundreds of thousands of voters.
Distance ourselves from the idiots. It needs to be made extremely clear that these people are in fact idiots that we absolutely condemn the actions of.
Use statistics. Between us (ABA, government employees etc) we should be able to get clear statistics on things such as how many ferals bowhunters eradicate each year; how many ferals the government eradicate each year; how much of a saving this represents to the government; what the hunting/bowhunting industry is worth to the nation; etc etc. These facts will hit home a lot harder than will opinions.
Get something onto YouTube. Might sound crazy, but he reckons it would be a fantastic idea if we can put together a clip about bowhunting, the ideals, the people, the history, etc. Make it look like it's for bowhunters, but really make it for the public. It's important that it comes across in a professional manner. We have the people and the skills to do something like this, it wouldn't cost a lot and could be a very positive step in terms of getting the message across to the millions out there that have no idea what we do or who we are.
Some valuable points from someone on the outside who's got a modern and political mindset.

[ozbowhunter 15]

Can a minor even draw back a highpowered bow, i don't think so.

I sent mine in but i'm not that confident it will be printed.

Might have to stick to recruiting.


Considering a minor is considered as being a person under the age of Eighteen then YES, i'm 16 and i can draw back a 70# compound bow with ease, along with most of the juniors on this site around the same age as me. Just look at David J Hardy he's 17 and is using an 86# bow.

[Luke]

A lot of very good points of action and suggestions in this thread fellas.

[Johny Quick Draw]

Sorry ozbowhunter 15 I thought they were reffering to 12 and under. I mentioned Archery in schools as i used to do it.

[Luke]

One of our members contacted me today and passed on the bill before WA parliament.

Here is the bill that has only been tabled and NOT passed.

http://www.aussiebowhunter.com/Bill088-1.pdf


They also added the following:
Today I have spoken with one of the heads of the Firearms Licensing Dept. and there has been no changes to the WA Laws as yet. The attatched bill has only been tabled and not passed.

I also spoke to Richard Barry(the author of the original release) from the RSPCA who I might add wants to outlaw bowhunting Australia wide, prohibit anyone under the age of 21 from owning a bow of any kind etc etc......he is an Englishman and there is no bowhunting there.
I am of the opinion this man has absolutely no idea of ethical hunting practices or how the ABA works.
Hope this is of help to you, and I will be recieving email notification as the bill progresses thru parliament and will keep you informed.
The time to act is NOW people! Get busy helping or get busy preparing to take up another past time. :(

[Johny Quick Draw]

This is what I wrote if anyone interested. They like to use radicle words......radicle is my middle name.
My god you make sound like we are the worst people in the world. I don't make a recomendation on how you put down thousands of animals each year, or try and regulate it and these animals are pet's. Instead of writing letters, how about concentrating on the job of locating missing pet's then charging us a fortune to get back. We hunt FERAL animals that destroy AUSTRALIAN NATIVE'S and AUSTRALIAN TERRAIN. Do you not understand that archery in school is popular?. You use the words 'DEADLY' and 'HIGH POWERED' with no idea in what you are saying. At least we hunt introduced species not give a animal a time limit then put it to sleep with a "DEADLY" injection and a "HIGH POWERED" syringe.

I used to work for free at the rspca back in the day.

I used to walk the dog's as no one else did.

They would slowly disapear every saturday when i turned up.

I got really angry and said why are you killing them.

They said there time was up.

Great. rescue a animal, deworm it and then give it a time limit. Which varied all the time. I looked into these dog's eye's and they new what was happening.

A dog, man's best friend and they are defending vermin.

[Luke]

And here is the official statement

Rob Johnson
Minister for Police; Emergency Services; Road Safety

Mon 12 October, 2009
Tough new restrictions on weapons

Portfolio: Police
Police Minister Rob Johnson today flagged tough new restrictions on the sale and supply of controlled weapons to minors as part of an overall State Government strategy to improve safety in and around entertainment precincts in Western Australia.

Mr Johnson said he would be creating new offences under the Criminal Code and increasing penalties for offences under the Weapons Act 1999.

The Minister said anyone found with a weapon in or near a place of public entertainment could face up to five years’ jail.

“These restrictions will further safeguard law-abiding Western Australians and help eliminate weapons from our entertainment precincts,” he said.

“An important part of the legislation focuses on the sale of controlled weapons to young people, particularly those under 18.

“Anyone caught selling or supplying a controlled weapon to a minor faces two years’ imprisonment and a fine of $24,000.

“People have the right to have a night out without the fear of being attacked or threatened with a weapon.”

Controlled weapons include a machete, bow, crossbow, dagger, double end knife, fixed baton, hand or foot claws, machete, metal whip, sickle or scythe, spear, spear gun, sword, throwing blade or knife, throwing star, weighted chain or cord weapon.

The legislation creates the following new offences in the Criminal Code that will attract a penalty of five years’ imprisonment:


being armed in or near places of public entertainment

being armed in public in company

having ready access to both weapons and a prescribed amount of cash

having ready access to both weapons and illicit drugs.


The Bill also increases penalties within the Weapons Act:


penalties for importing, possessing, purchasing, selling, supplying or manufacturing prohibited weapons would increase from the current maximum of $8,000 and/or two years imprisonment to $36,000 and/or three years imprisonment

penalties for offences relating to the carriage or possession of controlled weapons would increase from the current maximum of $4,000 and/or one year imprisonment to $24,000 and/or two years imprisonment

penalties for offences relating to the carriage or possession of other items of weapons increased from the current maximum of $4,000 and /or one year imprisonment to $24,000 and/or two years imprisonment.


The legislation will be introduced into State Parliament this week.


http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/WACabinetMinistersSearch.aspx?ItemId=132602&minister=Johnson&admin=Barnett

[comagutsa]

being armed in or near places of public entertainment



being armed in public in company




so no more archery clubs at parks/schools then, you could end up in jail for up to 5 years

[Luke]

How about this one:
having ready access to both weapons and a prescribed amount of cash

remember they define weapons as:
Controlled weapons include a machete, bow, crossbow, dagger, double end knife, fixed baton, hand or foot claws, machete, metal whip, sickle or scythe, spear, spear gun, sword, throwing blade or knife, throwing star, weighted chain or cord weapon.

So if you have cash (perhaps you are very well paid for your job) and you have a bow you could also be jailed for 5 years? What the???

[Schiesser]

Get something onto YouTube. Might sound crazy, but he reckons it would be a fantastic idea if we can put together a clip about bowhunting, the ideals, the people, the history, etc. Make it look like it's for bowhunters, but really make it for the public. It's important that it comes across in a professional manner. We have the people and the skills to do something like this, it wouldn't cost a lot and could be a very positive step in terms of getting the message across to the millions out there that have no idea what we do or who we are



I was thinking a similar thing last night.

The essential problem is that are simply not enough bow hunters. So how do you get more?

I figured a short video "Introduction to Australian Bowhunting". Put it up for download on You-Tube, but also DVD quality ISOs for downloading (Bit Torrent). Licence the Video as Creative Commons, non-commerical, attribution - so anyone can copy it for free, but cannot re-sell it for profit.

The video would be a short (1 hour) HOWTO on beginning bowhunting. Aimed at the younger age would-be hunters, presented perhaps by a few articulate 16 year olds (male & female). Covering:


Gear, Shooting & archery clubs
Hunting (what's legal, stalking, shot placment)
Field Dressing & Cooking game meat

Present concise and accurate information, and don't sugar-coat it - give enough information for beginners to take up a challenge. For example, explain that a well placed heart-lung shot kills the animal quickly. Also explain that if you can't near-garuantee the shot, then not to take it. Include all the information we know (and take as a given), but beginners could be ignorant of (like using the proper blunt/broadhead). I don't mean to sound like it should be a clinical doco - it should include all the things we enjoy about hunting: the chase, stalking, bush-craft, game meat, etc. I mean it should not shy of hunting aspects like showing a dead animal - whether it wanted to show something like the "gizzards & all" view of field dressing would be something for discussion (I think it should).

In the short-term, perhaps we can make something from bits of video footage lying around with a voice-over (sounds a bit dodgey though). But much better would be a dedicated summer project for bow-hunters who actually get those lengthy summer holidays ;) Anyone know anyone studying film-making? Communications?

Comments anyone?

-Schiesser

UPDATE: Once produced, we could cheaply have the DVD duplicated including artwork (i've done this before for work). They could then be sent out to every archery shop in Australia that would be interested in giving them to their customers.

UPDATE AGAIN: maybe I should have started a new thread...

[Luke]

Come July next year I will have 6 months or so free... something sooner would obviously be preferable.

I know we have a number of experienced and budding video directors out there that would be capable of doing a fantastic job of this.

[Schiesser]

being armed in public in company



so no more archery clubs at parks/schools then, you could end up in jail for up to 5 years


Have you notified your local archery club about the proposed legislation ?
In terms of this wording - a bow is a bow.

For what it's worth, I can see where these sorts of laws are coming from - armed groups of thugs in the city. But they're using too large a blanket to snuff out a small problem.

If I were in WA, I'd be ringing my Archery club & local member.

cheers,
-Schiesser

[Luke]

And shops as they stand to suffer a huge blow to their sales.

[Treker]

being armed in or near places of public entertainment

If you live near a park or public venue :mad:

[kal_mike]

We have had heaps of time to act on this some of us chose to do it at the submission stage. Here is a thread where we argued over weather it would affect us, in this case there is no satisfaction in "I told you so".

http://www.aussiebowhunter.com/showthread.php?t=9479&highlight=wa+weapons+law

[ozbowhunter 15]

Get something onto YouTube. Might sound crazy, but he reckons it would be a fantastic idea if we can put together a clip about bowhunting, the ideals, the people, the history, etc. Make it look like it's for bowhunters, but really make it for the public. It's important that it comes across in a professional manner. We have the people and the skills to do something like this, it wouldn't cost a lot and could be a very positive step in terms of getting the message across to the millions out there that have no idea what we do or who we are


How about we make a video that shows some of the native animals of Australia and have writing like "brushtail possum extinct due to over population of feral cats and foxes", then let the public know about what the RSPCA and other AL groups are doing and the problems they're going to cause to Australias native Flora and Fauna ?

[BillB]

That sort of video is a great idea. A long version & also a short version (or two) as 'viral ads'.
I have no skills that would be useful but that's something I would be prepared to donate some $$ to assist with.

& on a seperate note here's an interesting older article about the rspca. Not hunting related but....
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2004/s1137257.htm

[Tomalophicon]

This is what I wrote if anyone interested. They like to use radicle words......radicle is my middle name.
My god you make sound like we are the worst people in the world. I don't make a recomendation on how you put down thousands of animals each year, or try and regulate it and these animals are pet's. Instead of writing letters, how about concentrating on the job of locating missing pet's then charging us a fortune to get back. We hunt FERAL animals that destroy AUSTRALIAN NATIVE'S and AUSTRALIAN TERRAIN. Do you not understand that archery in school is popular?. You use the words 'DEADLY' and 'HIGH POWERED' with no idea in what you are saying. At least we hunt introduced species not give a animal a time limit then put it to sleep with a "DEADLY" injection and a "HIGH POWERED" syringe.

I used to work for free at the rspca back in the day.

I used to walk the dog's as no one else did.

They would slowly disapear every saturday when i turned up.

I got really angry and said why are you killing them.

They said there time was up.

Great. rescue a animal, deworm it and then give it a time limit. Which varied all the time. I looked into these dog's eye's and they new what was happening.

A dog, man's best friend and they are defending vermin.

I didn't get the idea from anything in the article that they were defending vermin.
They do what they can to save and find accomodation for these animals and put them down humanely when they can't, because the have become a commodity. Their argument wasn't whether or not ferals should be hunted, but whether or not they are being killed in a humane fashion.

[Johny Quick Draw]

Fair enough Tomalophicon

In my point of view they are defending Vermin by trying to enforce a law that will already make it harder for people to go hunting.
How many people get turned off recreational hunting because of the red tap and the slow process of obtaining a firearm. When i grew up everybody hunted, now not many do it for the exact reason of what the RSPCA IS TRYING TO PUSH THROUGH.
RSPCA have no RIGHT to suggest any law changes envolving bow hunting and rifle hunting. It's my firm beleif you don't stick your head over the neibhours fence and change what they do.

The RSPCA NO DAM WELL WE KILL IN A HUMANE FASHION, and they also no that it's only a few idiot's that spoil it, but that doesn't stop them from ignoring the 99.9% good hunters and focusing on the .1% bad hunters.

They do a great job of finding homes for animals for those who can afford them and charging ridicolouse ammounts for the battler to get there mutt back which is half the reason people dog's stay in there.
I never hear one bit of thanks or support for the hunters from the RSPCA as it's funny we are the ones protecting native animal's instead they put us in a bad light at any oppotunity and push for ridicolouse LAW changes.

What do they no about the bush and rural community's, i don't see any shelters in small towns.

Writing to a police commishonor for laws to clamp down on the sale of bow's.

It's on.

[jindydiver]

I didn't get the idea from anything in the article that they were defending vermin.


Nothing in that article, but make no mistake, the RSPCA is run by animal libbers and they have an agenda.

RSPCA Australia believes that man must treat animals humanely. Where man makes use of animals or interferes with their habitat, he should bestow a level of care befitting man's own dignity as a rational, intelligent, compassionate being, and a level of care merited by the nature of the animal as a sentient creature capable of responding to man's care and attention. Such care should be marked by sympathy, consideration, compassion and tenderness towards animals.

RSPCA Australia believes that national and international adoption of set minimum standards of treatment and husbandry, and the observance of the following points, will enable all species of animals to live according to their behavioural needs as provided by a compassionate and responsible community:

1. Animals have an intrinsic value of their own and, accordingly must be considered to possess the right to live in a way which enables them to have a positive life and to develop and enjoy their inherent qualities.
2. No animal should be used for the production of food or fibre, either by farming practice, transportation, or method of slaughter which in any way may cause suffering, injury or distress.
3. No animal should be used for sport or the entertainment of man when such use may increase the risk of injury, suffering or distress to the animals, or is contrary to its nature.
4. Animals should not be used in direct combat, either one against the other or in warfare.
5. Animals should not be used in experiments which inflict pain or suffering upon them and which are not essential for the benefit of man or animals. The use of animals should be replaced by reliable alternative techniques immediately they become available.
6. No animal should be used in excessive breeding programs or programs which produce deformed or weak offspring.
7. Domestic animals must be effectively protected from adverse weather conditions, predators and disease.
8. Domestic animals must be kept in such a way which will enable them to socialise, move freely, stretch, lie down, and have access to clean water, a suitable balanced food supply, and to prophylactic and corrective medicines.
9. Native animals and birds shall be maintained safely in their natural environment and shall be free from hunting, trapping and captivity. Culling may occur, but only when proven necessary for the preservation and benefit of the species. Culling must only be carried out under proper supervision and control.
10. Any animal suffering from disease, injury, or debilitation, must be given first aid or appropriate veterinary attention quickly. If the affliction cannot be cured, or if it involves permanent and serious disability, the animal must be humanely destroyed.
11. The State shall enact and enforce laws, regulations and codes for protecting animals from exploitation, and for ensuring that their basic individual needs are maintained at all times and that their environment is kept free from illegal or irresponsible intrusion.
12. The State shall also develop and implement suitable educational programs or ensure that man's responsibility towards animals is taught in all schools and in the wider community.

Man has an obligation to protect the interests of animals at all times. He should be encouraged to willingly accept this obligation. But, if he does not do so, then the force of the law should be used to ensure that all animals are treated humanely.

[DavidJHardy]

its only a deadly weapon if you use it to be one... same as can be a tooth pick... so where does it end???

[DavidJHardy]

“We look forward to a time where these powerful weapons are confined to sporting events where the targets are made of straw and their operators are licensed and trained archers. All other scenarios should be consigned to the past.”

and people don't still shoot rifles unlicensed???

[ozbowhunter 15]

and people don't still shoot rifles unlicensed???

Exactly, bit like they don't shoot kangaroos without tags :rolleyes:

[Johny Quick Draw]

I know we can hunt the humane way,

with a syringe.

[gr8whitehuntr]

The antis aren't going to stop at just regulating bow sales. Even if it mean having to get a license we will not be 'out of the woods'. There are green fanatics out there that will not stop until just about every outdoor activity is illegal. Bowhunting will be considered cruel. Rifle hunting will be considered dangerous. Fishing will be considered cruel. 4 wheel driving and camping will be considered destructive to nature. Farming and using livestock for food will be considered inhumane. When will it end?

[jindydiver]

When will it end?

When we all submit to the daily dose of soma:rolleyes:

[gr8whitehuntr]

Now they are *****ing about the use of whips during the Melbourne Cup. Will they put in a proposal to ban horse racing and to have whips added to the controlled weapons list too?

[guysmall]

You have got 2 write letters,If u give a ****

[Treker]

You have got 2 write letters,If u give a ****
Spot on Guy. These people are going after what they think are soft target, they get rid of one then go after the next

[Antonio Lara]

I think they have finally awoken a sleeping beast that they never knew existed. Between oursleves and all the other outdoor enthusiasts, when we get our act together we will be a huge force to be reckoned with. It is great to see all and sundry getting behind this and I think we will see some good come of this when future issues arise

[DavidJHardy]

If they stop a minor then you will see the likes of Hunt or be Hunted, PSE Tony, Woodstocka, TD, DJH, BowhunterBrad and many many other great juniors that we have on here disappear and turn into what then? Play video games and get up to no good. These young guys are the future of our sport and if we cut them off at the grass roots then we are done for without a fight.

ant, i believe someone already made a golden point when saying they are just turning otherwise law abiding people into law breakers. and these new laws wont stop the law breakers!

i know for a fact i will not just go and play video games, nothing will stop me hunting - and i will fight to the death to keep my freedom to hunt.

[ozbowhunter 15]

exactly what i said before: all the laws are going to do is make alot of otherwise law abiding juniors have to break the law just so we can go bust up a couple of bunnies down in the paddock.

[Dturf]

Amen, DavidJ And Ozbowhunter

[gr8whitehuntr]

David and Ant, you guys are spot on. I am worried about the next generation of potential hunters and their rights too. The greens and RSPCA would rather see our youth at home watching DVDs, or worse still getting into bad stuff that teenagers do like drinking, drugs, underage sex etc. If they have their way, the closest thing the next generation will get to spending time outdoors will be Cabelas playstation games.

[Aigal08]

Im against a blanket ban on our youth hunting with the bow.

But i believe something needs to be done about the misuse of hunting bows. It is going to kill bowhunting in Australia.

The two things that are most likely to ruin bowhunting in australia are "Morons" who do the wrong thing with bows. And the RSPCA types and general public who do not know how a bow works. These two things go hand in hand as a weapon against us. Most people have no idea how a bow works. Id say 90% of the people i talk to about bowhunting think that an animal is shot many times to kill it.

I talked to a woman the other day who iv'e known for about 2 years. She is a vocal member of the local greens party. She knew i hunted and has no problem with it. She was under the impression i used a rifle though. When i told her i used the bow & arrow she was shocked. She asked how i could do such a thing. I explained how an arrow works and my experiences with bowhunting. After this she said I could hunt on her property!!!
The reason we were talking about hunting was the push to get hunters into National Parks. She voted against hunting in National Parks because of MORONS with bows that shoot native animals. This was also the main reason she thought animals must be shot many times to be killed. Many of these animals had been shot with target points. Just about the only area of hunting with a bow that gets spotlighted are these people that buy a bow and then go on a rampage.

[jindydiver]

The main threat to hunting in Australia is people who don't care how we do it, they don't want to know the facts, they just hate it anyway and will say anything and do anything to make us conform to their view of how things should be.

But you are right, there are many out there who oppose what we do because they are basically ignorant, and education of those people would go a long way towards turning them from opposition to support.

[Bowfly]

Great work Aigal08.
Education is for sure the best way to get people to understand what we are on about and how effective the arrow is as a means of quickly dispatching an animal. Good work on the property score and welcoma board..
You have exactly the right attitude we need around here.
Rod

[owenf]

We're not the only ones who have had a gutfull of the RSPCA:

http://www.rspcawatchdog.org/home.htm

http://www.careaware.info/index.html


I know I've been away for nearly a year but after spending a couple of hours reading the threads I had no idea how f**ked up this had become.