hunting in nation parks ?

[deano4812]

ok here i am today ,looking at deer grazing like cattle on nation park property ,could not believe my eyes ,just out and about talking to a few property owners trying to gain access to someones property ,end up in nation parks ,were they obviously roam like kings ,being the guy i am ,knowing iam not aloud to hunt there ,iam still wandering ,what would happen if i went on nation parks ,and got caught what would happen to me ?,temptation is there ! does any one know the penalties for this in qld ????? cheers dean

[Luke]

You could lose ALL your hunting gear AND your vehicle.

Not worth it IMO! :o

[Rock Steady]

I personally dislike poachers with a passion and your asking advice on becoming one?

[brucester]

You'd probably make the rest of us look a little like we need to be managed for a lack of impulse control. If you're lucky enough to own a 4wd you may share that with Anna (Bligh that is) and she may wish to dispose of that how she sees fit. There's also a fine of $10K that may come your way and if you take your favourite bow maybe you can share that with Anna as well as no doubt she'll want to keep that safe for ya.

Keep lookin champ, or pay to hunt while you wait. You'll get there tiger and then it'll all fall into place. I'm sure you wouldn't like to see the future of the sport become so over licensed and managed because of a few deeds justified by a passion or........someone's new found hobby.

Your enthusiasm is what will get it under way for ya, you could also join the ADA, an archery club or just network the bejesus out of everyone you come into contact with.

cheers
bruce

[deano4812]

advise not approval ,can you not read

[Rock Steady]

advise not approval ,can you not read

Not a very clear statement, are you asking our advice to commit a criminal act but not our approval if you decide to do it?

[LITTLES]

My advise, DO NOT DO IT. You will prolly get caught, ruining it for you, me and every other hunter. Just entertaining the thought while knowing it is illegal is rediculous, we ALL wish it was legal but know it isnt. Im guessing you will get the same reply from every other person on here.

[deano4812]

cheers bruce , i grew up on a 40,000 acre property just near roma ,hunting was not a privilege , nor did i need to ask permission ,it was a way of my childhood ,now i find my self living in a so what different community,sorry champ i was just simply asking a question on laws ,all the best tiger ,cheers dean

[skeeter]

don't do it guy the penaltys are heaps severe and you could even up being jail***** to a big guy called brutus....

[grimmobow]

just shoot em...............with a camera that is!

[guysmall]

Yes we don't recomend it,and i don't condone.

[edgarfrog]

You could perhaps get permission from a neighbouring property owner and set up a hide or stand near the boundary for when they cross over. Track their movements and see if they move off NP estate.

Trust me mate, I have had some experience with the type of sissy that works for national parks and they would love nothing more than to catch a hunter on NP estate.

The law is the law, no matter how tantalising the temptation.

[clinton miller]

so why is it one can fish for and kill native fish species in national parks but can't hunt feral animals? because common sense is in the minority and hunting is taboo in this country?

[adam]

Mate if there in the park there elsewhere so keep trying for permission on private land. There's no shortage of deer throughout nsw and Qld even if it means a bit of a drive and numbers are getting better and better each year, so forget those deer in the park and keep searching as It won't take long till you get somewhere as good.

Otherwise your talking about losing all your possessions, fines and even jail and thats not to mention bringing your pasttime down with you.

Adam Greentree

[Rambo]

Yeah I wouldn't do it. If you get caught as heaps of people have already said you will get fined and possibly/probably lose all your gear, plus you'll be giving every other bowhunter out there a bad name and that could have some negative impacts on us.

SO I RECKON ITS A NO GO!

[deano4812]

hey have brought a bow yet

[DavidJHardy]

Using 24 question marks in a thread title should also be ilegal.

[deano4812]

ha ha

[deano4812]

13

[Rambo]

hey ed have you brought a bow yet mate ?????????????

I'm ordering my new compund on tuesday, but I've got a couple of recurves which I hunt with.

[deano4812]

i have looked into the laws here in qld ,and yes its defiantly a no go zone ,i don,t understand why though ,i have seen dows shot dead and left on the side of a track to rot ,apparently some sort of culling procedure preformed by the local rangers ,seems like a big waste to me ,

[gr8whitehuntr]

i have looked into the laws here in qld ,and yes its defiantly a no go zone ,i don,t understand why though ,i have seen dows shot dead and left on the side of a track to rot ,apparently some sort of culling procedure preformed by the local rangers ,seems like a big waste to me ,


Yeah it's a shame. The National Parks seem to have the view that hunting and hunters are dangerous, something like the roo-shooters in the movie Razorback. They will argue that the rangers who shoot deer in the culls and leave them to rot are professionals and not gun-crazed rednecks (hunters). This is the picture that the media, anti hunting groups as well as irresponsible morons who do the wrong thing paint of us :mad:

The disturbing fact is many of the deer you saw in the National Park that you can't shoot will end up being killed........accidently by trucks, 4WDs and cars.

The State Forests in NSW are far more hunter-friendly and they recognise what an important role we play in conservation and the environment. If you can make the odd trip down to Northern NSW it might be worth getting a NSW Game Council R-Licence. That will give you the freedom to book declared State Forests online and hunt there free of charge. The licence fee is only $60 a year but it's worth every cent and then some. It's great to know that at least we have some gov't departments that don't cave in to the demands of noisy minorities!

[xforcebaby]

you bring up a good point, temptation! suburbia is killing me too mate, you can take the kd outa the country but you can never take the country out of the kid. dont do it, even if ya can, as bowhunters we represent each other if i take the chance and get done (even if i dont agree with the laws) my fall causes a fall for bowhunting, thanks for your honesty!

[edgarfrog]

Yeah it's a shame. The National Parks seem to have the view that hunting and hunters are dangerous, something like the roo-shooters in the movie Razorback. They will argue that the rangers who shoot deer in the culls and leave them to rot are professionals and not gun-crazed rednecks (hunters). This is the picture that the media, anti hunting groups as well as irresponsible morons who do the wrong thing paint of us :mad:


Not impressed with NPWS Rangers. Tend to be left wing fairies.

[gr8whitehuntr]

Not impressed with NPWS Rangers. Tend to be left wing fairies.

Left wing fairies with a Nazi-like agenda of taking the rights away from all responsible hunters and fishers.

[gr8whitehuntr]

If you are in support of hunting in state forests, I urge you to join the Shooters Party in your state. They are going to be the ones fighting for our cause in parliament and they could use our support. Membership is only $30 a year which is a small price to pay for the defence of our right to hunt and fish.

http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/

[Trapdoor]

I can't see the benefit in speaking poorly of members of NPWS in any State. Like any organisation there is a diversity of people involved, some good, some bad. An encounter with some of the bad ones should not taint the whole organisation with the same "left-wing-nazi-agenda-fairy brush. There are plenty of people within NPWS who enjoy hunting in various forms, yes, even bowhunting.

NPWS have no money, State Forests have plenty of money because they farm trees for profit. Some of their profit is used to employ expensive law teams to draft documents allowing hunting. NPWS sit back and envy the financial position of State Forests, and do their best to manage their land for conservation purposes, which does not (sadly) include enough money for their purpose, let alone funding legal teams to resolve the issues of hunting-induced litigation in public places.

[gr8whitehuntr]

http://www.gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au/portal.asp?p=claimsprocedures

It's the NSW Game Council's insurance that covers public liability, not the State Forests. If conservation hunting was allowed in NSW National Parks there wouldn't be any cost to the NPWS.

I also agree with Deano. It is a big waste having the rangers shooting the deer and leaving all that vension to rot.

[Luke]

I believe it is their very own policies that taint the whole organisation with the same "left-wing-nazi-agenda-fairy brush.

We don't need to blame some of the bad ones
:confused:

[shooter65]

Just a quick reply, Not all of the rangers are against hunting. And some of them wish they could have hunter do the control for them but they are controlled by red tape.

[Luke]

they are controlled by red tape

my point exactly.

[Qballz]

Another note on this.

I spoke to DSE and then transferred to park rangers and National Parks in Victoria you cannot hunt for goats, foxes or any ferals.
When I asked why the ranger said they have an agreement with Spors shooting association who does all their culling of ferals in national parks.
Asked why I cannot take a bow in and shoot one goat for an example and the ranger was stumped really apart from saying my bow would not be humane!! and that they had a "deal" with the gun club.

WTF is that about?

Seems like both DSE and some park rangers are pretty poorly informed on bows and or the rules and regs themselves.

[sambartom]

:confused:..Thats a bit of a different question mate,..;)..I would say for all us bow hunters please don't do it,A lot of people think already that if you hunt with a bow you must be poaching"far from true",So don't prove them right.I don't know what Nat park your talking about but their are some Nat parks you can hunt at the right time of year,EG some of BawBaw Nat park can be hunted"stalking" at the right time of year,;).If you want to know more about what Nat parks can be hunted look at DSE web sight...Good luck with it...

[sambartom]

Another note on this.

I spoke to DSE and then transferred to park rangers and National Parks in Victoria you cannot hunt for goats, foxes or any ferals.
When I asked why the ranger said they have an agreement with Spors shooting association who does all their culling of ferals in national parks.
Asked why I cannot take a bow in and shoot one goat for an example and the ranger was stumped really apart from saying my bow would not be humane!! and that they had a "deal" with the gun club.

WTF is that about?

Seems like both DSE and some park rangers are pretty poorly informed on bows and or the rules and regs themselves.

:)Its not what you know its who you know;)...

[gr8whitehuntr]

It still disgusts me that the taxpayer forks out $400 for each deer harvested by professional shooter when the job can be done humanely and for free by licensed conservation hunters using bows or rifles. Knowing the government there probably is a great deal of red tape restricting the culling of animals in NPs. I personally won't go hunting in them, I will abide by the law but I can tell you I definitely don't agree with it :mad:

Whoever thinks that a bow is inhumane doesn't know what they are talking about. It annoys me when people like that think they know everything when they probably don't know the difference between a broadhead and a field point or a recurve from a compound. While not all rangers are so stupid, but the one who said that bowhunting isn't humane is just and ignorant moron. I believe that particular ranger has what we call a "know-it-all". Being a ranger he probably knows a bit about the local wildlife and has probably seen the odd feral being shot so in his mind he is qualified to tell you what hunting methods are the most effective and humane even if you have been hunting longer than he has been alive.

As much as it sucks, I'm not going to hunt in National Parks until it becomes legal.

[Trapdoor]

I believe it is their very own policies that

We don't need to blame
:confused:

I'm surprised by that Luke. Things are not as simple perhaps in Government departments, where there is a diversity of important, politically influential groups to consider, and not only bowhunters. NPWS are fortunate to be able to cull anything whatsoever, considering the opposition to their culling practices is many times more vehement than that experienced by the bowhunting community. While there is a lot of red tape involved, this is generally not generated within the organisation itself, but a result of extraneous community forces, that should be respected (within reason). While NPWS are not perfect, they are doing a good job generally considering the myriad influences on their policy decisions.

Brumby cull in the Snowies, anyone? (Hint: think back).


EDIT: Considering calls elsewhere on this site for a united bowhunting community, I can't see the point in focusing on the negative aspects of NPWS. Objectives are more often achieved through positive measures, understanding and compromise, but not by finger-pointing and nay-saying.

[Luke]

I'm surprised by that Luke, all of your other posts seem well-informed and reasonable at least that I have read. Things are not as simple perhaps in Government departments, where there is a diversity of important groups to consider, and not only bowhunters. NPWS are fortunate to be able to cull anything whatsoever, considering the opposition to their culling practices is many times most vehement than those experienced by the bowhunting community.

Brumby cull in the Snowies, anyone? (Hint: think back).

And I know very little of you from your 28 posts yet you seem to be rather energetic in defending NPWS. Another agenda perhaps? I don't know, just calling it how it seems...

What makes you think these posts are not informed???

The point I was making is that most of us know full well to not judge each individual in the NPWS on the merits of the group as a whole.

But the GROUP does have the red tape and policies that prevent us from hunting in the parks (with some exceptions in Vic). That, you cannot debate, it is fact and it is where the "left-wing-nazi-agenda-fairy" comments are well aimed in my opinion.

For the most part these policies are founded in mis-truths and a lack of eduction regarding the efficiency and effectiveness of recreational hunters - especially bowhunters (as with said example in the previous post by Qballz) and I am sure also in good part due to the fact that a lot of pandering to noisy anti-hunting groups is most certainly done as well.

If they are so tight on money, why not allow qualified and proficient hunters into parks to do the job for them and in doing so put YOURS and MY tax paying dollars to better use??? Blind Freddy can see that makes sound economical sense!

If they are PRO animal, why do they condone baiting? Probably THE most inhumane ways of pest control in existence yet they point fingers at us, again like in the above example (which is far from the only one of it's nature I have heard of over the years) and label us as inhumane hunters!

[Trapdoor]

Luke, a "Them and Us" approach is not fruitful, and no, I do not work for NPWS. Should we discuss matters in private I would be able to provide you with enough negative information on said organisation to make you squirm. My point is that attacking NPWS with name calling is more primitive than wooden arrows and much less likely to hit a target with any effect. So why bother? In negotiations between community groups and government departments, compromise is essential and positive outcomes should be the focus.

I find it strange that the only negative encounter I have had on this forum is due to me supporting the major conservation-oriented landholder in Australia (NPWS), who uphold the same principles as many bowhunters in pest animal management. I cannot envisage resolution being procured through further debate, so what is the purpose of espousing NPWS as "left-wing-nazi-fairies"? It's simultaneously comedic and disappointing.


EDIT: Luke, I apologise wholly for the somewhat personal tones in my previous message, it was written in haste and I should show better manners in conjectural dialogues. I do hope for unity in hunting.

[Luke]

Negative encounter??

Sorry, if I have come off that way. I am only replying from a position where my posts have been labeled as uninformed and unreasonable. My apologies if you think the tone of my previous post changed somewhat to 'negative' in reply to your 'shot' at me (even though I see you have edited it out in reflection , albeit too late). http://www.tour-oz.net/forum/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

Likewise I see my points are totally mute and your position to believe NPWS "uphold the same principles as many bowhunters in pest animal management" whilst to me, quite laughable, is well entrenched and further discussion in quite pointless. http://www.tour-oz.net/forum/images/smiles/icon_brickwall.gif

[Trapdoor]

I see a number of members of this forum who like to manage feral animals, as illustrated in the T-shirts and whatnot made by some members. This feral management, such as written on a t-shirt- "I bowhunt so that you can birdwatch" is akin to the "I bait foxes and trap cats so that you can birdwatch" philosophy of NPWS. Why is the similarity between these parallel epistemologies laughable, when both aim to reduce feral animal numbers by culling? While your points are neither mute nor moot, I think that "Them and Us" disunity and name calling will not prompt NPWS to invite bowhunters onto their land, should the opportunity ever avail itself.

[jindydiver]

Trapdoor
While it may indeed be true that there are some people working for NSW NPWS who support hunting in general it can not be said that they are the people who hold the reins of the organisation, and it would be safe to say that none of them actively lobby for recreational hunting to be allowed in NSW NP's. One regional manager (who I know quite well) commenting to me a while back when I asked when he was going to let recreational hunters into the parks he is responsible for said " hunters will be allowed into NP's over my dead body, and every other Park Manager feels the same way". Seems a fairly well entrenched and firm position on the matter to me.











Another note on this.

I spoke to DSE and then transferred to park rangers and National Parks in Victoria you cannot hunt for goats, foxes or any ferals.
When I asked why the ranger said they have an agreement with Spors shooting association who does all their culling of ferals in national parks.
Asked why I cannot take a bow in and shoot one goat for an example and the ranger was stumped really apart from saying my bow would not be humane!! and that they had a "deal" with the gun club.

WTF is that about?

Seems like both DSE and some park rangers are pretty poorly informed on bows and or the rules and regs themselves.

The person you spoke to is talking rubbish.
In Victoria you can stalk deer in some NP's but you can hunt non-game animals. It is the law as it was set out many many years ago. The fact you can't hunt "pests" in NP's has nothing to do with any "deals". It is the opposite really, you can only hunt pests in NP's if you are involved in highly regulated culls negotiated through years of hard work by the SSAA lobbying the DSE and State Gov. Rather than the slant the "ranger" gave you implying SSAA took something from everyone else it is actually that the SSAA negotiated a concession from DSE that NO-ONE ever had before.

[Trapdoor]

JindyDiver, I agree with the whole of your post, but would like to say that I have met some senior staff (including one Regional Conservator in South Aust.) who were active hunters and were open to the idea of accessing National Parks. My experience was similar to yours though, in that none were actively lobbying for hunting access within parks. I certainly don't view these people as "left-wing blah blah", rather as good men working within the limitations of their employer. Some good hunters, too.

[Luke]

I certainly don't view these people as "left-wing blah blah", rather as good men working within the limitations of their employer.And that was my entire point which you seemed to miss. :rolleyes:

The point I was making is that most of us know full well to not judge each individual in the NPWS on the merits of the group as a whole.

The limitations, red tape and conditions put on them and enforced by them are "left-wing blah blah" in my opinion, not necessarily or specifically always those who work FOR the NPWS.

[gr8whitehuntr]

The limitations, red tape and conditions put on them and enforced by them are "left-wing blah blah" in my opinion, not necessarily or specifically always those who work FOR the NPWS.

I agree totally. It seems that those in control of the NPs rather than those who simply work for them, could be given honourary memberships from PETA.

[sambartom]

DSE are good at getting fires going.....But yes they do try their best "just doing there job",And yes DSE have some great hunters..Glad im in VIC...LOL

[wearthefoxhat]

The problem with NP service is that they don’t provide a logical argument on why they disapprove of hunting in National parks.
The NSW Game council has proved through practice and experience that conservation hunting is effective.
I suspect it is more about the industry that surrounds pest control in NPs that they are trying to preserve. It employs people but not just shooters but biologists, social impact studies and other crazy positions that are created to address the feral issue. To introduce an effective free pest control service would threaten the very existence of this micro industry employed by the National parks and which they pay through the nose for.
I recently had a long discussion with a NP shooter and he described the process involved in the decision making of the eradication of a local mob of wild pigs.
We estimated it probably cost upwards of 100 k to make the decision. He then went in and shot approx 200 by Helicopter. His best estimation is that 60% would be instant kills….thats all.
I am sure this has already been done to death but the shooters party need to use NZ as an example where The Department of conservation (DOCs) not only encourages the assistance of hunters for pest control but will also build huts in the NPs to encourage trampers and Hunters to use the back blocks.
Works fine in NZ…why can’t it work here??
As I say I think there is possibly another agenda here.