View Full Version : form for trad?
ok second try at this.
I was looking along the lines of what part of good target form is important for good hunting form in trad gear, i.e. no release aid, counter balances, range finders etc :)
in particular, how important is rear elbow position to accuracy, or is it not important if you have a consistant anchor?
Ed,
I personally find the position of my draw arm elbow to be very important. If I keep the forearm inline with the arrow and squeeze the scapula's together, which has the effect of bringing the elbow around back, I shoot better.
When you do this right, and the majority of the draw weight is being held by back muscles( not the arm ) and an anchor on my eye tooth and also the thumb joint on the corner of my ear, drawing hand laying against the side of my face, it is a lot more solid for me.
By using a straight bow arm ( straight but not locked ) and a stance only slightly offset to the target position, when you rotate the draw elbow around and take the draw weight on the back muscles, it's almost like the cam roll over on a compound.
When you reach this full draw position, the bow weight is pretty much held thru the alignment of bones and back muscles. Works for me anyway :D
Ed,
By using a straight bow arm ( straight but not locked ) and a stance only slightly offset to the target position, when you rotate the draw elbow around and take the draw weight on the back muscles, it's almost like the cam roll over on a compound.
When you reach this full draw position, the bow weight is pretty much held thru the alignment of bones and back muscles. Works for me anyway :D
Woody is this an open or closed stance?
Re your request for form photos, hope this help :lol: :lol:
I like her form & her shooting style also
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/shageki/contortion.jpg
:shock: Where's her quiver? And with camo like that she must be hunting polar bears :wink:
Woody is this an open or closed stance?
Feet are just slightly more than shoulder width apart and line thru bow hand to draw hand is a little off set, to the line to target.
:D
Thanks Woody (and Axe too, whats her anchor point?).
I will try shooting with your comments in mind. I can get to the corner of my mouth without much back tension, to get the back into it and the arm more in line I end up drawing almost to the back of my jaw.
I have noticed that if I bend my head forwards a bit I can bring my draw arm more in line with the arrow at a shorter draw -i.e elbow and bow hand stay still, and draw hand and head move to the line between them.
Ed,
I'm not drawing the arrow back further, I'm using the muscles in the back to roll the drawing elbow around behind, more in line with the arrow.
It's not about draw length, it's about bio mechanics and doing it easier. :D
ok Woody, thinking about what you say that would mean that your shoulder is higher than neutral or is in some amount of horizontal flexion. It would pull the forearm into line with the arrow but also put more weight onto the rear deltoids (ya like that coach :) ). Not sure it saves you any effort but we are talking form anyway.
some extra things I am looking at are 1. cocking my bow wrist so the draw is shortened a bit, 2. turning my head more towards my target - I noticed with the corner of the mouth as anchor I could have my head sideways enough that the target was barely in my right eyes field. With drawing to the back of my jaw it is not possible (if you'd like your nose to stay there).
it occurs to me that this is rather funny, every thread I have read on draw length has been about lengthening it in proper form, and I am looking at proper form with maybe a chance to shorten the draw length...
Ed,
My back muscles are working more than my draw arm muscles when I do it right, and it seems to be easier this way for me. The forearm and hand is just a floating linkage, from the elbow/shoulder/back muscles, the only thing tensed is the first joints of the draw hand fingers.
I'm not sure that cocking your bow wrist would work very well, if you do this it would place weight on your wrist muscles and not thru the line of alignment of bone that a straight bow arm gives.
I think you would need to be very strong to make this work with hunting poundages.
Why are you trying to shorten your natural draw length, wouldn't you be better off to shoot arrows as long as suits your arm lengths.
If your draw is long, a longer bow ( 66"+ )may help get around any stacking problems
I shoot off the very tips of my fingers ( Damascus glove ) and anchor on my eye tooth with my middle finger tip.
This doesn't mean that my ideas will work for you, it suits me, we are all different, but you are obviously putting a bit of thought into it and thats a good start. :)
thanks again Woody,
yeh I have been thinking about this a lot. I do have arms longer than a gibbon and can draw up to 34 inches I found with so called "good form". That is kind of risky for a 68inch longbow. It is stacking as the string angle is greater than 90 degrees, I am not sure it could handle that draw length for long.
When I said cocking the wrist I mean letting it relax so the bow rests against the heel of the palm. I have seen a lot of people straighten their wrist out almost as if they were pointing at the target with their index finger and this lengthens my draw out to 34. So I save myself an inch by letting my wrist bend upwards.
Shooting off the very tips of the fingers makes them a bit numb, so I have been shooting from the last knuckle joint crease. Sometimes pluck the string but not too bad usually.
will do whatever is needed to get 10cm groups at 20m.
thanks again Woody,
yeh I have been thinking about this a lot. I do have arms longer than a gibbon and can draw up to 34 inches I found with so called "good form". That is kind of risky for a 68inch longbow. It is stacking as the string angle is greater than 90 degrees, I am not sure it could handle that draw length for long.
When I said cocking the wrist I mean letting it relax so the bow rests against the heel of the palm. I have seen a lot of people straighten their wrist out almost as if they were pointing at the target with their index finger and this lengthens my draw out to 34. So I save myself an inch by letting my wrist bend upwards.
Shooting off the very tips of the fingers makes them a bit numb, so I have been shooting from the last knuckle joint crease. Sometimes pluck the string but not too bad usually.
will do whatever is needed to get 10cm groups at 20m.
Get a sighted compound then :lol: :wink:
Ed,
I think there is a "formula" for matching bow length to wing span, in Howard Hills, Hunting the Hard way, I think ( memorys not what it used to be)
Perhaps a knowledgeable bowyer, like Glenn, can elaborate.
It may be worth getting a bow, custom made, to fit your specs
Sorry about the broken wrist thing, I misunderstood what it was you were saying. I know blokes that shoot low wrist grips on longbows very well.
I cant pretend to know much about longbows, as recurves are my thing in trad gear. Getting arrows that long would be a hassle too, I'm guessing. :D
As for 10 cm groups, why not? Anything is possible if you want it bad enough, and practice smart.
hood - not usin' no training wheels! :lol: Just to annoy you I am bringing one of the heavy bows tomorrow for a shot or two at the practice range. 83#@28 Woomera longbow, I know all the real men will have a go at it 8)
I think you are right Woody, I will need a custom bow - that is why I would love to do that course with Glenn. I might be able to pick up a Japanese bow that can handle the draw length before that, but they are not as efficient (read shoot like a slingshot) as a flatbow or longbow from what my mates over there tell me.
well guys, thanks for the input (from this and the accidentally deleted thread) - it is already having some positive effects.
I have not been able to practice at home as I am still renovating and the shed is full. So I arrived late to register for the 3D, didn't have time to practice and then posted my best score to date (498). Took Axe's advice in mind especially to keep my bow arm fully straight and had better luck with the vertical accuracy. One arrow round and scored better than I had on the paper round with 3 arrows. Thanks guys.
Also didn't get to bring the woomera as I broke the string on Friday :shock: Arrow landed a foot low and the string broke at the bottom nock, went straight up and landed 15 feet up a tree. No damage to the bow though will need to make a flemish string jig now... :roll:
Southern Field Archers is not affiliated with either it seems. They did host an ABA shoot some time ago and quit soon after (asking got me a lecture on why which I will not go into).
Anyway I do not know what format they follow but you do get points for hitting anywhere on the target - pissing buffalo off with leg shots even (no not me). Points are 20 for centre kill zone, 18 for killzone and 16 elsewhere. I scored a reasonable spread of each infortunately. Still it is an improvement.
Southern Field Archers is not affiliated with either it seems. They did host an ABA shoot some time ago and quit soon after (asking got me a lecture on why which I will not go into).
Anyway I do not know what format they follow but you do get points for hitting anywhere on the target - p@#ing buffalo off with leg shots even (no not me). Points are 20 for centre kill zone, 18 for killzone and 16 elsewhere. I scored a reasonable spread of each infortunately. Still it is an improvement.
Thats correct Ed our club isn't linked to either ABA or 3DAAA.
We do how ever use teh ABA paper targets for our own comps. every few weeks. And I'm almost positive the 3D rounds are scored under the ABA rules :?
First score zone 20 second score zone 18 and the rest of the target legs and all is 16.
I had a very very very bad day shooting, only scoring 434 :oops: from the second peg on a very windy day.
It was a very challenging course, as it was set up exactly the same as it will be for when our club hosts the Masters Games this weekend, only difference being is that last weekend it was unmarked but will be marked distances for the MG. There were a lot of visiting shooters that normally only ever shoot marked distances and boy did they have a fun time guestimating their shot distances :lol: :lol:
You fella's are telling us your scores but what is the maximum you could have scored???
Regards...Sparra
You fella's are telling us your scores but what is the maximum you could have scored???
Regards...Sparra
2 rounds 20 targets highest score each target 20 points you work it out :wink:
max. score800
thanks Mick...but you didn't let me work it out!!!! :shock: :shock:
Oh yeah and that score was with the curve.
So you only have a 50% hit rate , not good enough for hunting in my book :wink:
Jeff the way I was shooting on Sunday I wouldn't even invite myself to go hunting.
But hey we all have our good and bad days, and I had a very bad day. :(
jeez coach talk about judgemental! :roll:
Sure tells me that I am no where near good enough to shoot at a small pig at 30m or a goat at 35m. Maybe that is in your range but not most of the members here from what I have seen in previous posts.
Might have to stalk up a bit closer than the range master set the course.
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