carbons for trad bows?

[sam hunter]

What do people think of using carbons from a trad bow? One the one hand I feel it is disgusting but I shoot them from my wheelie and appreciate there toughness and long life capabilities.
You can make a carbon look more trad by spray cresting the last 6" and using feathers, I made up( for my compound) a set of gold tips with red barred feathers in 4" sheild over red oxide primer with red and yellow cresting stripes, look great to my eyes.
I know there are some things to consider like don't shoot very light carbons out of trad bows, nothing under say 500grns for a 50# bow?
Can I 'weaken' the spine and add weight by say replacing my usual 100gn tips on my 55/75 gold tips with say 150grns or more to use from my 50# Martin Mamba ( Santa is bringing it, only 120 sleeps to go!).
Don't get me wrong I love wood arrows and intend to make my own but I think carbons could have a place as well.

[Axe]

What do people think of using carbons from a trad bow? One the one hand I feel it is disgusting but I shoot them from my wheelie and appreciate there toughness and long life capabilities.
You can make a carbon look more trad by spray cresting the last 6" and using feathers, I made up( for my compound) a set of gold tips with red barred feathers in 4" sheild over red oxide primer with red and yellow cresting stripes, look great to my eyes.
I know there are some things to consider like don't shoot very light carbons out of trad bows, nothing under say 500grns for a 50# bow?
Can I 'weaken' the spine and add weight by say replacing my usual 100gn tips on my 55/75 gold tips with say 150grns or more to use from my 50# Martin Mamba ( Santa is bringing it, only 120 sleeps to go!).
Don't get me wrong I love wood arrows and intend to make my own but I think carbons could have a place as well.

I use both, don't care what others think, as I said in an earlier thread, IMO, if "strictly" trad is the cry, then modern glues, broadheads, strings, bow materials etc etc should not be considered along with wooden shafts with plastic noks

Like you, I use grey & red primer on my carbons :D

As for your arrows, heavier B/head or longer shaft will weaken spine.

Too heavy a b/head may "upset" the arrows FOC, if you have a concern about it being within the "acceptable" range, arguably for hunting 10 - 15%, then you may need to increase the arrow weight throughout or at the nok end to restore the FOC, not just at the sharp end.

Having said this I have some arrows with the FOC at over 20%, shoot just fine :D as is often said if it works, do it... Here's just one link that may assist you, http://www.socalarchery.com/Information/front%20of%20center.htm

Arrow weight, some profess that minimum 6grns per pound of bow is enough, B/Widow insist on minimum 8grns to maintain warranty. I am a firm believer in heavy arrows are better for hunting so I tend to have mine at about 10 - 11grns per pound of bow draw weight.

To achieve the overall weight with the carbons I insert fly screen rubber tubing up the guts...adds approx 290grns to a 30" arrow & doesn't effect the spine.

A snug fit from nok to insert stops the necessity to glue it in, obviously a short piece would need gluing so as not to have it slide back on release & thereby dislodge the nok :)

[Kimall]

Mate I say go the carbons.The only things you need to consider as you have noted is the weight thing which you can overcome by putting rubber tubing inside the shaft and sometimes it is a bit trickier to get them to fly right as the spine charts dont seem to be so spot on when it comes to this.
The best thing about them is you can have one set of arrows and just screw some of woodies b/heads and go hunting.also as you said they are MUCH tuffer than most woods so last a lot longer.The other thing about wood is sometimes you can get a dozen shafts all the same spinage and find they may weigh as much as 100 grains differant this makes it much harder to get a matched doz.This is not a problem with carbons.Dont let others tell you what you should shoot lots of people have hangups about what is "TRAD" and what is not why not use the best flying arrow you can get IMHO.
Cheers KIM

[Axe]

Mate I say go the carbons.The only things you need to consider as you have noted is the weight thing which you can overcome by putting rubber tubing inside the shaft and sometimes it is a bit trickier to get them to fly right as the spine charts dont seem to be so spot on when it comes to this.


IMO, forget the spine charts, Bare Shafting is the best & only way to get the correct flight with your arrows when using trad.

As the carbons don't have the weight differences you find in woods, it is very simple to bare shaft if you are using the same shaft, weight head, etc etc for each arrow, it only requires one arrow. If using different components then one of each arrow is required. Although I always try a few for total satisfaction.

I have found the cheaper shafts are as good as any, I believe that Adam is using $5 Hoddywell shafts, with no complaints

With woods I test each arrow before it goes into the quiver :)

[woody]

Mine are 55/75 Gold tips, with the gold tip internal weight system, they come in at 580 grains, (with the added weights.)

Just the nock going away is what I get from my Bear recurve

The weights allow FOC and dynamic spine tweaking until they work out perfect.

The Gold tip Traditional's have the "wood grain" look and look pretty slick with a cap wrap and barred feathers.

Pretty arrows are always more accurate :D :D

I think carbons recover quicker and last longer than other arrows and are the ducks guts for my trad bows :D

[Arra Slinger]

Hey mate go the carbons, i to asked the same question some time back
and after playing with some mates arrows i ended up getting the goldtip "traditionals" (woodgrain) which look the part aswell.

Ben

[sam hunter]

Thanks for all the feedback you blokes, we seem to be on the same wave length here.
I have a home made wooden self bow (a flatbow of 60" and 60# with no shelf) that is no different to bows used 6,000 years ago in Europe. To me that is Trad as buggery (except for the string)and should be matched with some truly trad arrows with horn or bone nock inserts and flint tips, natural feathers tied on would also be correct but again, not tied on with modern thread.
So everyone has there own personal 'rules of what is Traditional' that they only need to justify to themselves.
I will be using carbons out of my Martin Mamba when Santa brings it and I don't see a problem using carbons in conjunction with a modern made recurve which uses 'space technology' in its glues and glass and no doubt CNC machining in its manufacture.
I am however a devotee of Fred Aspels book, 'instinctive shooting' and have nothing but respect for your choice of any combination you feel comfortable with. Thanks for the friendly feedback, Sam Hunter AKA Brian from Eumungerie

[outback preditor]

hi there axe. i found the tubing doesnt effect the static spine (i always forget which is which so for this static is on the jig and dynamic as it comes out of the bow) but it does effect the dynamic. i shoot 55/75s and get heavy nock left. then the same shafts put the fly tubing up the guts and i get heavy nock right. on the spine tester the spine is the same.
whats your thoughts?
ped.

[Axe]

Yes it does affect the dynamic spine, maybe my wording should have been "effects the spine marginally", generally a slightly stiffer spine, but by adjusting arrow length or b/h weight this was easily overcome.
I found without the tubing the shafts were lighter than I like them, with dowel inserted they were not uniform, whereas once I determined my arrow length with the b/h I prefer, problem solved

Not sure if this is what you are asking but...
Without the tube you have too weak a spine, so, shorter shaft or lighter b/h., but this then reduces total arrow weight.
So... in your case, with the tubing you have too stiff a spine, therefore you would either need to use longer arrows or increase b/h weight

Alternately, toss the tubing & as Woody & others do, go to the G/Tip weight system, suppose to be very good, IMO it's just more stuff to fiddle with.

BTW Pedro, I'm using 55/75 Bullets($6.50 each) 160 - 175grn b/h 28 1/2" shaft. From both 72# Widows & 68# Huntsman (I'm sure will also be ok in my 3rd Widow) fly as true as can be, I don't shoot beyond 30m & mostly under 25m if at all possible :D

P.S. I'll be in Cobar in early Oct, so if you are about & you are interested we might have a beer :D