View Full Version : Vb versus Fox
On the weekend went for a walk around the inlaws place for a chance at a bunny. Spooked the first one i saw as i had to walk across the pebble driveway, was coming back up the hill and saw another and just as i was nearly in position the next door neighbours dogs came running up to the fence and the bunny took off again. Since the dogs were going off i moved around the other side of the hill and waited, then 10m in front of me a fox ran straight past me i still had an arrow nocked with a VB, had those dogs had not been going off he might have just been walking. So here is a question if he had of stopped at 10m out of a 60# bow would a VB take a fox down cleanly.
Casey-G
16-06-08, 06:42 PM
I would imagine that would be a fair bit of energy transfer to that fury little bugger, i reckon it would, spesh at 10m
acthunter
16-06-08, 06:43 PM
im definately no expert , but i have used the VB's to great efect on bunnys and i would say that they are not really suitable for foxes.BUT.....if you hit him on the head im sure it would kill him quick smart.
hunt or be hunted
16-06-08, 06:48 PM
good question, if it was me in your shoes and that fox did give you a chance for a shot, i would of gone for a headshot, out of #60 at 10m he wouldn't be getting very far after that i would imagine.
but as we all know, broadheads are WAY more effective on things like foxes so maybe it would of been good to change arrows to a broadhead, waited a few minutes and then had a whistle in a spot 20-30m from where you spooked it from?
looking forward to others replys.
dan.
spiderbait24
16-06-08, 07:46 PM
i would suggest bringing a broadhead and go for a walk for bunnies and after youve spooked them all:D
haha!
and then get a fox whistle, atach the b/head and have a go.
I had broadheads in the quiver the point is i still had my arrow nocked from the second rabbit with the VB. I was hidden from the fox near some tree's and he hadn't seen me. He was running from the barking dogs, so if by chance i have a VB on while chasing the bunnies and i am close enough a head shot could be an option.
VB's are absolutly killer heads but not for foxes by any means.
so if by chance i have a VB on while chasing the bunnies and i am close enough a head shot could be an option.
In my opinion NO it's definitely not an option. :confused:
What about a hare? I have shot hares that were as big as an average fox with adders. Cleans them up no worries! Having said that if I had a broadhead in the quiver I would grab that over any small game head for a fox.
Where do you draw the line?
Personally I draw the line between the hare and the fox ;)
Now we are splitting hare's.:P
DavidJHardy
17-06-08, 10:11 AM
i've heard of people taking head shots on foxes with martin skipper stoppers and having clean results
Why is it that every 2 - 3 months or so we have this discussion? :confused:
Do a search on PUPs (another VB style head), judo's or adders vs foxes.
Without fail almost every experienced hunter commenting on those threads has suggested that these heads are NOT the tool for the job recommending the use of broadheads for foxes.
I'm sure it is like smacking your head on a brick wall when inexperienced hunters just wont listen to the older wiser blokes who've been there and done that. :rolleyes:
HareSplitter
17-06-08, 12:02 PM
i wouldnt use any small game heads out of my bow on hare or fox, mainly becuase some of the hares around here are as big as my dog(lab) and i think it wouldnt drop them quick enough. i shot a huge hare with a big fat ribtek through the neck (aiming for the shoulder) and i followed a blood trail 200m into a black berry bush, which proves they are very tuff. also if you hit a rib with a vb or adder it probably wont penatrate much at all even with 60#+ bows. for hares now i use a broad head with an adder behind it, does anyone think that is more suitable to shoot a fox with if that is all you had in your quiver??
DavidJHardy
17-06-08, 12:53 PM
i reckon any razor sharp b/head will do the trick but start adding small game heads that are designed to slow the arrow down inside the rabbit and thats stupidity. on a fox/hare you want a clean pass through or at least deep penetration so adding small game heads seems like a dumb thing to do imo. this morning i used an outback supreme on a medium sized kitten rabbit... clean pass through... seemed to do the trick;)
i normaly use varmint busters and skipper stopper on them though
Thwack!
17-06-08, 12:53 PM
i've heard of people taking head shots on foxes with martin skipper stoppers and having clean results
I've gotta agree 100% with Luke and Adam on this topic. And David, I apologize for singling your statement out mate, (I know you are a young fella, with a lot of enthuisam and heaps of curiosity - those are all good things!!!) ..... but.....
None of you young blokes, all of you with plenty between your ears, have a problem with the law and ethical rule that says "Don't shoot kangaroos with bows and arrows". But there seems to be a gray area here, to me this topic is very similar, "Don't shoot foxes with small game heads" (I know this one is not against the Law - its just an ethical law). An ethical law that is in place and upheld by the responsible/experienced in the sport - to preserve the sport, and try to maintain a good/responsible image of the sport.
Now, I know you fellas young and old, are exploring the boundaries of your sport and your own ethical boundaries - and that we all know that today's modern compound equipment probably could propel a small game head efficiently enough to kill a fox - but just because we probably could, does that mean we should (for the good of the sport we all love).
I hope you guys, exploring your boundaries, don't see my rant as a raving old fart going off his tits - its not that at all (an I'm not that old :D). A question was asked, varying answers were given, you know what is right and wrong and what is moving into gray areas. Please understand that you have a responsibility to your sport, should you decide to accept it.
Clemo: your question a good one - "where do you draw the line?"
I feel that the line lies between hares and foxes, but there are no hares in my area and I would be open to all arguments on this - but at the moment I would shoot a hare with a small game head.
Another question to the forum:
Should you be considering head shots with archery equipment (as has been refered to in this thread)?
My answer: Head shots with bow and arrow are OK with heads designed to kill via force/shock. So a head shot on a rabbit or hare using a small game head, for myself is OK. Once you swap to a broadhead, designed to kill by cutting/bleeding, you must rule out the head shot and deliver the cutting edge to the vital chest cavity organs for maximum cutting/bleeding.
I'd love to hear others views on those topics.
Good post Thwack, I would say you covered it.;)
The Hare line hey, is that a relative term? Cause my hare (hair) line seems to be shifting, retreating substantially these days.:eek:
Thwack!
17-06-08, 01:28 PM
Good post Thwack, I would say you covered it.;)
The Hare line hey, is that a relative term? Cause my hare (hair) line seems to be shifting, retreating substantially these days.:eek:
Haa,ha - My hair line's not muckin around either mate, know the feeling.
i wouldnt use any small game heads out of my bow on hare or fox, mainly becuase some of the hares around here are as big as my dog(lab) ??
You have either got damn big hares or one small lab. :P
HareSplitter
17-06-08, 02:56 PM
i reckon any razor sharp b/head will do the trick but start adding small game heads that are designed to slow the arrow down inside the rabbit and thats stupidity. on a fox/hare you want a clean pass through or at least deep penetration so adding small game heads seems like a dumb thing to do imo. this morning i used an outback supreme on a medium sized kitten rabbit... clean pass through... seemed to do the trick;)
i normaly use varmint busters and skipper stopper on them though
one of the points adders were made was so your arrow stays in them, ive shot six rabbits now with surpreme broadheads out the front of the burrow and they all made it down the hole, and when i put an adder on the back it didnt get away at all, also when an arrow is stuck in a rabbit or hare it will flip and try to get the arrow out before running away,
giving you time to finnish it off with an arrow or how you choose to! also! putting an adder on the back of a broadhead does more damage to the small game you a shooting by tearing up the vitals inside, another thing adders do with broadheads is limit them from going beneath the grass or ground, another thing is i looked at an old adder pack i had and it has a broadheads with an adder behind it and not a feild point and a picture of a fox.
back to the topic, NO! VB's at this current time should not be shot at a fox
HareSplitter
17-06-08, 02:57 PM
You have either got damn big hares or one small lab. :P
i think the kangaroos have been cross breeding with the hares:P
I designed the blunts for bunnies and when used correctly - they are devastating. I would not use them on foxes, no matter what. A reynard wants and needs a sharp broadhead in the vitals. There are some very experienced bowhunters on this site and I think, when they type, we should all read.... Happy hunting Howie
Can't argue with that. ;)
special
17-06-08, 03:26 PM
I know its not ideal..as they dont fly exactly the same...but when we go hunting i take 3 muzzy's..2 tuskers and a judo in my quiver...my boys have tuskers and a judo aswell...i only shoot the muzzy's at deer(if im lucky)...the tuskers are tough and do for most game...and if a bunny runs out theres allways a juno for backup...dont want to smash muzzy's into the ground...
Thanks guys for all your responses. I have deceided after reading all of the responses that if i see a fox i will use a broadhead and if i have a VB on the arrow and a fox walks past he will keep walking unless i have time to change over to a broadhead.
I designed the blunts for bunnies and when used correctly - they are devastating. I would not use them on foxes, no matter what. A reynard wants and needs a sharp broadhead in the vitals. There are some very experienced bowhunters on this site and I think, when they type, we should all read.... Happy hunting Howie
I don't know if they really want it or need it howie but I guess if anyone on this forum gets their way it's what the old reynard is getting whether he likes it or not :P
acthunter
17-06-08, 06:29 PM
Why is it that every 2 - 3 months or so we have this discussion? :confused:
Do a search on PUPs (another VB style head), judo's or adders vs foxes.
Without fail almost every experienced hunter commenting on those threads has suggested that these heads are NOT the tool for the job recommending the use of broadheads for foxes.
I'm sure it is like smacking your head on a brick wall when inexperienced hunters just wont listen to the older wiser blokes who've been there and done that. :rolleyes:
So what do the young and inexperienced do Luke? do a seach for every question they have? IMO then the site would become an enciclopedia instead of a disscussion forum.
spiderbait24
17-06-08, 06:49 PM
So what do the young and inexperienced do Luke? do a seach for every question they have? IMO then the site would become an enciclopedia instead of a disscussion forum.
sorry luke i agree with him.
Bo-Hunta
17-06-08, 06:57 PM
I think we all will make the mistake of shooting something with a head that we shouldn't.. Will always recomened that a razor sharp braodhead for anything bigger than a rabbit.. But have shot foxes, hares and cats with field points (what i had at the time and though i could pull it off, ocassionally it worked) and have seen pigs as well..
Begineers... Take the advise and think about it.. Then make your own mistakes as that is the only way you will learn
Just my opinion..
Mick
Thwack!
17-06-08, 07:02 PM
I reckon its GREAT that Jason1 asked his question - after all the VB's are only a new product and the devastation they have been shown on this forum to produce on rabbits has got to have people wondering of their capabilities.
What I reckon is EVEN BETTER is that Jason1 took the provided information and advice on board, made his own decision and let us know about it.
.......... Thats how its supposed to work isn't it? Well done to all.
brendan e
17-06-08, 07:03 PM
mate if you take the advise of senior bowhunters then you wont make mistakes.
cheers
So what do the young and inexperienced do Luke? do a seach for every question they have? IMO then the site would become an enciclopedia instead of a disscussion forum.
My point is searching first cannot hurt.
As for "go make your own mistakes". Well, someone once said "a wise man learns from his mistakes, a WISER man learns from the mistakes of others".
You can choose which one you want to be :confused:
Luke
DavidJHardy
17-06-08, 10:54 PM
I've gotta agree 100% with Luke and Adam on this topic. And David, I apologize for singling your statement out mate, (I know you are a young fella, with a lot of enthuisam and heaps of curiosity - those are all good things!!!) ..... but.....
None of you young blokes, all of you with plenty between your ears, have a problem with the law and ethical rule that says "Don't shoot kangaroos with bows and arrows". But there seems to be a gray area here, to me this topic is very similar, "Don't shoot foxes with small game heads" (I know this one is not against the Law - its just an ethical law). An ethical law that is in place and upheld by the responsible/experienced in the sport - to preserve the sport, and try to maintain a good/responsible image of the sport.
Now, I know you fellas young and old, are exploring the boundaries of your sport and your own ethical boundaries - and that we all know that today's modern compound equipment probably could propel a small game head efficiently enough to kill a fox - but just because we probably could, does that mean we should (for the good of the sport we all love).
I hope you guys, exploring your boundaries, don't see my rant as a raving old fart going off his tits - its not that at all (an I'm not that old :D). A question was asked, varying answers were given, you know what is right and wrong and what is moving into gray areas. Please understand that you have a responsibility to your sport, should you decide to accept it.
Clemo: your question a good one - "where do you draw the line?"
I feel that the line lies between hares and foxes, but there are no hares in my area and I would be open to all arguments on this - but at the moment I would shoot a hare with a small game head.
Another question to the forum:
Should you be considering head shots with archery equipment (as has been refered to in this thread)?
My answer: Head shots with bow and arrow are OK with heads designed to kill via force/shock. So a head shot on a rabbit or hare using a small game head, for myself is OK. Once you swap to a broadhead, designed to kill by cutting/bleeding, you must rule out the head shot and deliver the cutting edge to the vital chest cavity organs for maximum cutting/bleeding.
I'd love to hear others views on those topics.
i wasn't saying i would do it... i wouldn't take a fox with anything less than 1'' cutting diameter i was just saying i heard it was done thats all
Bo-Hunta
17-06-08, 11:22 PM
Agree guys... We all should take the advise of those that have walked before us... But who here can say that no matter what they have heard they have still tried things they have been told they shouldn't?? And then made their own opions???
Again Razor sharp B'Heads all the way..
Thwack!
18-06-08, 07:02 AM
i wasn't saying i would do it... i wouldn't take a fox with anything less than 1'' cutting diameter i was just saying i heard it was done thats all
Yeah David, point taken, I did apologize for singling your statement out before I started my post - an I still do, sorry mate. I just wanted to use your statement to emphasize the point I wanted to get across.
I certainly did not want you to feel like I was chastising you in any way, that is not what I intended to do. Its hard to get across in written word sometimes what you really mean and the fact that you were referring in your statement to something you had HEARD people have done and NOT something that you would do was a point that I failed to acknowledge in my post. Apologies mate, hope you understand.
Aaron
DavidJHardy
18-06-08, 11:06 AM
yeah Aaron i'm cool no hard feeling... i've also heard of someone taking a fox with a slingshot but thats something i chose to ignore as stupidity... thanks mate
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