The Low Down On arrow weight for hunting.

[Willy_R]

Not Sure If anybody has posted this on here before.
but simply put it quite possibly the most indepth study into Arrow penetration I have ever read backed up by practical testing and Science.

http://www.datakey.com.au/steve1/Momentum.pdf


Willy_R 8)

[Mick Smith]

Willy

That was a good read. It took me awhile though. No surprises here. I think most of us already know that heavy and slow wins the race when it comes to penetration. Of course broadhead design comes into it too.

It was interesting all the same. :wink:

Mick

[Kimall]

First let me say that I am not an expert on shooting large game as I have smaller stuff but this is somthing I have been thinking about so this some ideas I have.I think it has more to do with than just weight as a lot of guys up north I sell arrows to went away from alumin shafts to the newer tuffer carbon shafts but found that penertration suffered so everyone said they needed to be heavier.We started to add weight and suppliers started to make carbons just as heavy as the alumin.ie rinos.
After testing these arrows a lot of the guys have gone back to aluminiums and this was a real puzzel as we have always been told that weight was main factor but I have been doing some test and have found that if you wet an alumin arrow it becomes very slippery and if you wet a carbon arrow it actually becomes GRIPPY.You can try this by wetting your finger and sliding it along the shaft.I know some people have been putting vasoline on the start of the shafts and this seems to help on the big pigs up north.
Mabey the manafacturing companies need to look at making the shafts slicker to help with this.
I guess I am just rambling but it is not something that ever seems to get brought up when we talk about arrow penertration.I have also tested light vers heavey in 3D targets and found at hunting dist I tested them at the lighter faster carbons went deeper into the target than the heaver carbons and this was a real eye opener to everyone there at the time.
It will be an argument that will go on forever I think.
Cheers KIM

[brian]

kim - yes i dont think the discussion on this subject will ever stop. but it is certainly something that all bowhunters should think about/study to help their understanding IMO - we kill animals with arrows, and the more we know how to make them kill better/faster/more humanly the better IMO.

interesting what you said about the surface friction. alloys are certainly about as smooth on the outside as you can get in most cases, however alot of the newer carbons with camo/woodgrain patterns are quite slick also. the good doc. did say in his report that surface friction is an important factor.
the vapor carbon arrows (both woodgrain pattern and plain black) i use are quite slick compared to the goldtips i've used in the past.
i personally wouldnt worry about lubing my shafts for anything below scrub bull/buffalo size, and i dont think vasalene would be the best lube to use. i feel it may possibly work as a mild coagulant (sp?) yet we want that sucker to bleed freely and copiously. i reckon clove-oil would be the go if you really wanted to do that. the samurai used it to oil their swords and it also apparently promoted bleeding (forgot the word for that).

just a coupla thoughts i had anyways.

[jindydiver]

I think I might have heard that Vaseline is a coagulant and shouldn’t be used on arrows about a hundred times now.
While Vaseline might be able to stop bleeding if it is put on a small cut or graze (it is used by boxers for this) I reckon it would take a mighty big jar of it smeared on an arrow (and it would need some pretty magical powers) to reattach an aorta or reconnect pulmonary blood vessels. If people want to smear it on their arrows to get good penetration then they should, but I find messy and prefer to give my alloys a rub down with some armour all.

[brian]

true jindy, aortas would take a bit of work to stop bleeding - what strikes me is that people who do that are obviously trying to squeeze the maximum amount of penetration (for quicker kills) outa their arras as possible. yet with the benefit there is also a possible downside. that is what gets me wondering.
i also dont like the idea of messy arrows, but each to his own. bill baker certainly seems to have had some success with it on the buff.

[Willy_R]

As to the Point of weight verses penetration yes I think the Argument could go on for quite a while.
But as for the slickness of an arrow well I have been Turtle waxing my carbon shafts for a long time now. ( Started doing out so as to not make any noise dragging across rest & less drag in the Whisker Biscuit)

Even the Gold tip camo XTs with their slick coating and the Beaman Ventures Easton Carbonaeros etc all benefit from a good waxing..
Draw back to this is, fletching of course. New shafts I fletch first , refletched arrows I use silicone remover purchased from just about all Automotive Spare parts shops that sell automotive paints.

The one thing I did find extremely relevant in this document is the need for the shaft to be thinner than the Broadhead stands to reason of course, but I have gone one step further and ordered myself some Easton AXIS shafts.

As for the Vaseline stopping the bleeding I can remember years ago taking a mate over to another mates house who's dad was a Doctor because he had just run around the corner of the house and found the power box with his head , well being a good mate I administered first aid and slabbed on half a tub of Vaseline in the hope of steaming the bleeding,( We were like 10 I think ) well the Doctor just about wet his pants when I told him why I put this on there Cos they did it Rocky I told him !
His reply was: about a Cement mixed load would be need to steam the blood flow, As Lawrence needed 18 stiches in his head and was bleeding like a stuck pig........Cool eh ! man he looked cool with that scar and the girls loved it too !

I used to use Pure And Simple spray on my arrows but now days I don't find the need.

But my Arrows for hogs up north here are the Whitetails with Woody's 130gr Supreme 4 2" blazers and not too many stay in the Hogs for long...

For Bulls/ Buff I use a 2117 (mainly fall stalkers or Realtree ultra lites) with a Whitetail or Gold tip reject up the guts and 145gr Supremes or G5 Montec's in 145gr. And I turtle wax the Alloys too ! they are slicker than cat pooh on a linoleum floor........

Willy_R 8)

[Dave]

I can remember hunting goats nearly 20 years ago with a bloke who used vasaline on his broadheads to aid penetration. He claimed it helped the broadhead get through the dirty hair of a goat without taking the edge off the blades.

Things have certainly changed since then, arrows have improved dramatically, along with bows that are creating more speed and kinetic energy. There are more broadheads on the market than most guys will ever shoot, as Coach says most are their to attract hunters like lures to a fisherman. Interesting though that the old reliable, long , thin 2 blade head is still the one to use.

[Wareagle]

I heard of a guy, bending over, behind a target butt[ I think it was at the Grange Archery Club in Brisbane] he copped a alloy in the butt,and had to get it surgically removed, because it stuck like glue. :D It would make you look behind you , every time you bent over to pick up a lost arrow :D I don't know how anyone could mistake a mans butt for a target butt :D