View Full Version : Game Tally Question
Do feral birds count? Eg. Indian Myna birds?
Trophy Bowhunts
30-01-06, 06:07 PM
Mate there are no game birds legaly taken with Bows in Australia..
So there won't be any birds in the Tally.
Mick
Thanks :)- now I'll have to find something else :P -
Maybe they should put them on the tally to help reduce their populations. :idea:
Oh well that sux. I was going to make up some flu flu's and have some shots at pigeons as they flew out my sheds.. Looks like the semi auto shottie will just have to do the job.
Macka
aussiehunter
30-01-06, 08:26 PM
u must be alucky one having a semi auto shotty,had to hand mine in .... :D
bobzila
30-01-06, 08:35 PM
ha macka when i was studying for my gun lisense it sed sami auto and pump action shotys are ilegol to have in australia so just out of curiosity how do you (your dad) still have 1 :?:
jerry redman
30-01-06, 09:15 PM
i think you are aloud to have one if you have a bad roo problem or the owner has a real bad shoulder i think. jerry
bobzila
30-01-06, 09:42 PM
thanks coach i gess i red it wrong altho i did read it a long time ago :D
aussiehunter
30-01-06, 09:47 PM
u can get exceptions also if ur in a gunclub,,,they told me that after we handed in my late fathers belgium browning semi 12g...i was so dissapointed....thanks mr howard......
A guy down here tried unsuccessfully to keep 5 Brownings that had been in the family for 4 generations. He finally had to have them destroyed only to find they changed the policy and he could have kept them under a collectors licence....Not Happy Jan :evil: Bloody knee jerk reactions that keep changing to suit minorities :evil:
aussiehunter
31-01-06, 12:19 AM
dave i can say i was really upset,i use toshoot with it all the time for ducks...i did manage to keep a german mauser 22 rifle which is registed,my dad was an amourer in the war,it was confiscated in those days...man u can still shoot 5 shots under an inch at 100metres...plus he also left me a nice doulbe barrel 12g that i just recently got back after having anew stock made and reblued..
hopefully ill be ble to pass down to my sons if we still have any rights left then and we havent been invaded from our neighbours.,.. :D :D
jindydiver
31-01-06, 08:50 AM
Mate there are no game birds legaly taken with Bows in Australia..
So there won't be any birds in the Tally.
Mick
I was wondering when it was that mynas got elevated to "game bird" status. :?
There are no laws specifically prohibiting someone from hunting feral birds with their bow.
You can get a licence for semi automatics if you are a primary producer :D. And i must say they are a lot of fun but very dangerous compared to other styles of reloading.
Could someone clear this up then. If i am out hunting rabbits and a nasty old starling or a feral pigeon lands on the fence. Am i alloud to shoot it with the bow? or is it illegal?
Macka
jindydiver
31-01-06, 10:12 AM
Yes you are allowed to shoot it Macka :)
And if you can hit starlings with your recurve we ought to organise a prize for you :D
Hey thanx jindy. Well i doubt i would hit "A" starling but when they are in their mobs of 100's i might fluke a couple. But there are always the pigeons they are about rabbit size :D
Macka
jindydiver
31-01-06, 10:35 AM
Make sure they are feral mate :)
My dad spent most of his time when he was younger chasing bird nests when it was legal to take their eggs. Birds are also an intrest of mine and i spent a loot of time finding nests and taking pictures of eggs and birds before i got intrested in archery. so i wont be mistaking a crested pigeon or a brondze wing for a feral. Bringing back some memories from when i climbed across a cliff face to get to a perrygrin falcon nest. Man those birds come close to hitting you when they are angry!
Macka
My dad spent most of his time when he was younger chasing bird nests when it was legal to take their eggs. Birds are also an intrest of mine and i spent a loot of time finding nests and taking pictures of eggs and birds before i got intrested in archery. so i wont be mistaking a crested pigeon or a brondze wing for a feral. Bringing back some memories from when i climbed across a cliff face to get to a perrygrin falcon nest. Man those birds come close to hitting you when they are angry!
Macka
I'm surprised they could pull up at all! Being the record holder for the fastest dive @ 220km/h would put you pretty close to your target pretty fast! :shock: (apparently, at that speed they actually kill their prey by breaking their backs with their talons on impact)
Umm.... Hefty,
It's MY job to collect useless trivia, Remember? :wink:
Puk 8)
There are no laws specifically prohibiting someone from hunting feral birds with their bow
Can I ask Jindy where abouts you reference to to find out this information?
Police, DPI, Game Council? :?
Is there an online reference that contains this information that we can point people to?
Luke ;)
Under the Game and Feral Animal Control Act 2002, the following definitions apply:
Game animals: Under the Act, a game animal is any of the following that is living in the wild: deer, California quail, pheasant, partridge, peafowl, turkey.
Deer: the seven species of deer including red, fallow, sambar, hog, chital, wapiti, rusa.
Feral animals: For the purposes of the Act, any of the following animals that are living in the wild are also classed as ‘game’ however will be referred to by the Game Council as ‘feral’ animals: pig, dog (other than dingo), cat, goat, rabbit, hare, fox.
Pest animals: Under the Rural Lands Protection Act 1998 (RLP Act), wild rabbits, feral pigs and wild dogs are declared pest species. Foxes are declared ‘nuisance’ animals under the RLP Act.
jindydiver
31-01-06, 06:00 PM
There are no laws specifically prohibiting someone from hunting feral birds with their bow
Can I ask Jindy where abouts you reference to to find out this information?
Police, DPI, Game Council? :?
Is there an online reference that contains this information that we can point people to?
Luke ;)
More to the point, Can anybody find any law specifically prohibiting the shooting of feral birds with a bow?
All the current laws and regulations in force in NSW can be found here
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/scanact/inforce/NONE/0
You are welcome to search through this if you like
The greatest thing bowhunting has going for it is the lack of laws relating to the ownership or use of bows (as compared to firearms)
The greatest thing bowhunting has going for it is the lack of laws relating to the ownership or use of bows (as compared to firearms)
...yet simultaneously it's the one of the worst things going for it.
My understanding is that it is illegal to bowshoot ANY birds in Australia be them feral or not. Again, from what I understand the laws make no distinction.
I just dont want TBGA seen to be condoning the shooting of birds (even if they are feral or introduced) if we are not 100% sure the law and legislation says it's OK.
My thoughts are that if we can't find it anywhere then we shouldn't assume anything. I'd rather be safe than sorry esp given we are watched by the anti hunting movements.
Thanks for the reference Jindy...I'll start my trolling :shock:
Luke :D
jindydiver
31-01-06, 06:37 PM
The greatest thing bowhunting has going for it is the lack of laws relating to the ownership or use of bows (as compared to firearms)
...yet simultaneously it's the one of the worst things going for it.
I don’t see it as a bad thing at all.
You will never find laws that set out what is allowed except in counterpoint to laws prohibiting something. Laws setting out what we CAN do would be laws setting out rights, and we know we have none in Australia.
My understanding is that it is illegal to bowshoot ANY birds in Australia be them feral or not. Again, from what I understand the laws make no distinction.
What laws led you to this understanding?
coach wrote:
There has been MANY articles in shooting mags re shooting crows and pidgeons , so it makes one wonder
Quote:
yet simultaneously it's the one of the worst things going for it.
How?
Because any Tom, ****, or Harry can get a bow and without good education and guidance on how to use it correctly do the wrong thing with it all too easily. (No, I'm not saying we need regulation...) Just saying sometimes it's a bit too easy to stuff it up for the rest of us.
Re the hunting mags...sure I agree and it does make you wonder...I don't think it's very responsible of them, but we've had long discussions over responsible publishing of articles and for that matter, the responsible writing of said articles. At the end of the day, it comes down to the hunter doing the right and responsible thing.
I'd like to hope we're here to help people down that track, by passing on info we know FOR SURE...that's all. I'd hate to hear of someone getting "done" for the wrong thing because they followed a piece of advice from someone here (and I refer to ANY advice, not specifically with reference to birds) that was not accurately relayed to them.
I just think it would be wisest to be sure of this before we go assuming that because we can't find anywhere it say we can't shoot feral birds, that we can.
But hey, at the end of the day, if your in the paddock, what you do is up to you...I can't stop any one having a crack at a bird...I'd just hope they think of the possible consequences for the rest of us...
As Jindy said in his interview..."If in doubt, don't"...
Again, just my opinion.
Luke :D
Ok...I'll try to fit it in...
not being a smartarse either...but scratching my own butt these days is a luxury ;)
Luke ;)
aussiehunter
31-01-06, 06:57 PM
luke ill hav a look around on some sites tomorrow for ya if u like as its pouring rain here every day,give me something to do..ill let u know if i find anything..cheers pat :D
Cheers Pat! That would be fantastic help...thanks for putting your hand up mate! :D
Luke ;)
I'll still try to do what I can from my end...two heads are better than one ;)
Luke wrote..
...but scratching my own butt these days is a luxury
Maybe you could get J.Goodwin to help you out there mate...He seems infatuated with rear ends... :wink: :wink: :wink:
I'm not entering that debate...forty foot pole stuff that one...;)
Luke :D
takleberry
31-01-06, 07:57 PM
back to the oridginal question, game birds, the top end has a magpie goose season and yes your allowed to shoot these with a bow. bag limit of seven a day :lol: and they taste yummy
Tac
jindydiver
31-01-06, 07:59 PM
Because any Tom, ****, or Harry can get a bow and without good education and guidance on how to use it correctly do the wrong thing with it all too easily. (No, I'm not saying we need regulation...) Just saying sometimes it's a bit too easy to stuff it up for the rest of us.
The only way it wont “be easy” for someone to stuff it for the rest of us is if there was already heavy regulation on bows and bow hunting, and then it would already be stuffed. Bit of a catch 22.
Re the hunting mags...sure I agree and it does make you wonder...I don't think it's very responsible of them, but we've had long discussions over responsible publishing of articles and for that matter, the responsible writing of said articles. At the end of the day, it comes down to the hunter doing the right and responsible thing.
What is it about a magazine printing pictures and articles of people going about perfectly legal hunting that you find irresponsible?
I'd like to hope we're here to help people down that track, by passing on info we know FOR SURE...that's all. I'd hate to hear of someone getting "done" for the wrong thing because they followed a piece of advice from someone here (and I refer to ANY advice, not specifically with reference to birds) that was not accurately relayed to them.
I wouldn’t have said anything if I didn’t know “for sure”. I have been at this hunting game for a long time, and I have had over the years many conversations with people who hold some authority over me in relation to my hunting, and I can tell you that you will find no regulations prohibiting bow hunters from targeting ALL pest species including birds, as long as they do so with respect for the other laws regulating hunting (such as the prohibition of hunting in national parks)
I just think it would be wisest to be sure of this before we go assuming that because we can't find anywhere it say we can't shoot feral birds, that we can.
You wont find any laws specifically prohibiting you from shooting feral pigs either. But you do shoot feral pigs, don’t you?
aussiehunter
31-01-06, 07:59 PM
wonder if we can hunt magpie geese over here in the cape,hav a heap around,,ive heard they r good eating...any special way to cook them???cheers pat :D
It is illegal to hunt deer with a bow in Tassie isn't it????
I posed our quandry to Dennis La Varenne...a man I'm sure most here are familiar with as probably the most knowledgable man in Australia (IMO and many others) when it comes to the law, legislation and how it affects hunting...
Here's his reponse.
Luke,
Whatever you do, DON'T DO IT under any circumstances!!!!! The consequences
against bowhunting will be enormous.
Your 'lawyers' are looking at the wrong legislation. I can say without the
slightest hesitation that all birdlife except ferals are protected
throughout Australia.
You will find the protecting legislation covered under the various versions
of Wildlife Acts in each Jurisdiction. If you Google Wildlife Legislation in
Australia, you will be directed to most of them for you to browse through.
Some may be shot with the various kinds of shotgun in season only, but none
with a bow and arrow. The reasons for this are usually on the grounds of
potential for cruelty and or public safety. You will find the reasons set
out in the relevant Hansard record on debate on the legislation when it was
proposed.
I advise you to look up the Wildlife legislation in each of the States for
yourself. It is NOT under any kind of hunting legislation. These usually are
silent on bows and arrows except for Victoria and possibly NSW. Because they
are silent on this issue DOES NOT allow permission.
The prohibitions are usually contained in other legislation or legislation
which says that birds may be taken with specific weapons only. That is an
automatic prohibition.
Feral birds are difficult. To mix a metaphor - 'Absence of evidence (of a
law) is not evidence of absence'.
On this matter, I would have a serious look at the various laws against
cruelty as well as pest animal destruction. You may find them covered there.
I would seriously advise against putting it about that it is legal because
someone cannot find a specific law against it. It only takes another arrow
struck bird to be found /seen and it will get into the media again with the
usual consequences. The more misadvised bowhunters out there doing it, the
more likely it is to happen.
God help us if it does. We will be giving them on a platter the arguments
they need against us. I am with you on this one.
Dennis La Varenne
PS: Do you mind if I post this issue on Ozbow as well?? Feel free to post my
response and your question on your site
That says it all IMO...
Luke
jindydiver
31-01-06, 11:04 PM
Could you post the question you asked?
Hunting, with the specific aim of killing the animal or bird in a manner that is not intended to prolong suffering of the animal is an allowable defence against prosecution for cruelty under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act.
And no-one here has suggested for one minute that feral pigeons or mynas are game birds (except for Mick from TB) so most of Dennis’s letter is off the topic. And the premise that another animal on the front page of the paper with an arrow sticking out of it being harmful to us is another issue.
bowriver
01-02-06, 09:48 AM
It does say all bird life EXCEPT ferals, now what does that mean? Mynahs would be feral wouldnt they? The first half of that letter imo misses the question, is it illegal to shoot PEST BIRDS not game birds. It still doesnt tell us what the law says, we're still just hearing what it doesnt say.
Pat,
ive heard they r good eating...any special way to cook them???
Just cut off the breast fillets and cook the same way you would a steak(the rest of the bird is a bit tough), I've served it to people and they couldn't tell the difference. :lol:
Wellsy
aussiehunter
01-02-06, 12:52 PM
wellsy thanks for the info :D
davebrazier
01-02-06, 06:50 PM
Gday guys, I thought i would just stick my 5c worth in,...
to the best of my knowledge, rules and regulations regarding bow hunting birds is the same as that for shooters.
Generally, i would advise you dont shoot any birds, as the rules from state to state, time of year etc are just too damn confusing.
My advice, find something else as a target and keep your nose clean, its a hairy area.
As for publishing pix of birds shot, I dont think thats a wise move either.
Regards
Dave :D
Jacob Goodwin
01-02-06, 07:47 PM
[quote]Maybe you could get J.Goodwin to help you out there mate...He seems infatuated with rear ends.../quote]
Sparra,
I realise that this was probably intended as humour, but I suggest that you are getting close to crossing the line in terms of inappropriate comments.
Jake
jindydiver
01-02-06, 07:58 PM
to the best of my knowledge, rules and regulations regarding bow hunting birds is the same as that for shooters.
Spot on mate. And what regulations are there specifically in relation to the hunting of FERAL birds?
I can tell you mate, none (if we stick with the original question regarding pigeons and mynas, and not game birds).
So all this......
Generally, i would advise you dont shoot any birds, as the rules from state to state, time of year etc are just too damn confusing.
My advice, find something else as a target and keep your nose clean, its a hairy area.
As for publishing pix of birds shot, I dont think thats a wise move either.
means nothing..
Why is it that we can open a magazine (or a forum webpage) and see piles of pigeons shot with an air rifle and not blink an eye, but the merest mention of doing the same with a bow sends some people into a fit?
I suggest that you are getting close to crossing the line in terms of inappropriate comments.
I concur.
Luke
Management Team
01-02-06, 08:16 PM
The Management Team have discussed this issue and it is our position that until there is further and more precise clarification of this issue involving the citing of specific and relevant laws and legislations we insist on the adhering to the rules governing discussions and posts on TBGA.
Specifically: -
Discussion of hunting native or protected wildlife or domestic animals IS OUT!!! This is fuel for anti-hunters and will not be tolerated on this forum. We have been threatened with having our site shut down and legal action in the past for these kinds of posts.
To say that something is OK by law or legislation and to use TBGA to disemminate such information when NO hard proof or evidence is able to be found (supporting or defuting the point made) is fraught with risk that we are simply not willing to afford.
It has been recommended before on TBGA that opinion or heresay not be recommended as fact. In this case, due to the questionableness (? ) of said topic and the laws and legislations surrounding it, we believe that, as stated earlier, until hard proof of cited legislations and laws is found we will be recommending people do NOT shoot any bird in Australia, be it feral or native and again, insist that members do not use TBGA forums to disemminate advice, recommendations or opinion to the contrary.
The Management Team, in coming to this decision has, what we believe to be the best interests of Bowhunting and TBGA at heart.
Thank you for your understanding with this matter.
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