Going Mudgee way

[Jacob Goodwin]

Hello All,

I've just completed the toughest negotiation of my career (with my wife!!)which has resulted in a hunting trip in April in the Mudgee area.

My wife's relatives have a couple of properties in the region, all of which have a ton of goats. I've hunted one of the properties previously and was able to harvest quite a bit of meat. Fortunately, there is a decent population of older billies, on which I will be focusing my attention.

As an aside, I was involved in a discussion as to whether or not a population of fallow deer exists in the area. Is any forum member aware of the presence of fallow in Mudgee? If so, is it a large/huntable population?

Jake

[aussiehunter]

jake,how about telling us about ur pro hunting guiding in africa,,,i asked once before but u must have missed it...what game did u shoot with ur bow ,and do u have some pics,im sure everyone would be interested..cheers pat :D

[Glenn]

Jacob, I have hunted in the Mudgee area before and I do know that there are fallow deer around Mudgee, even though I didn't see any, Ithe area I was hunting was well away from the orchards and vineyards where there seems to be a fair few...Glenn...

[Jacob Goodwin]

Pat,

My time in Africa was amazing...and also heart-breaking in some ways.

My wife and I moved to South Africa in 2004 to work and live with a Professional Hunter/Outfitter and his wife. We were contemplating becoming equity partners in the business and immigrating permanently.

We were based in the Eastern Cape Province and guided a mix of trophy hunters (game) and wingshooters (birds) from both the US and the UK.

Most of the trophy hunters were riflemen, as they are the overwhelming majority...and provide the easiest/most profitable revenue.
(Unfortunately, bowhunters are viewed ambivalently by a certain segment of the PH community. In their view, spot-and-stalk bowhunters don't take a sufficient volume of game (where the PH earns his profit) and hide/blind bowhunters aren't hunting ethically. Of course, I don't agree with this view, but my views fell on deaf ears. )

I gained an increadible insight into the hunting industry, from marketing (from time at an SCI show in the US) to client service (from time in the field with clients). Needless to say, I saw the ugly side of the sector and shocking behaviour on the part of other outfits. The experience certainly put things in perspective...

Of course ,the big upside was the free hunting!!! My wife was able to take an enormous kudu and an excellent blesbok. I was blessed enough to harvest a cape buffalo, kudu, eland, blue wildebeest, black wildebeest, gemsbok, fallow deer(yes they have them in South Africa), nyala and common duiker.

More importantly, I was absolutely beaten by the following species:
Springbok (I hunted the same herd for 4 weeks STRAIGHT and got busted more times than I care to remember!)
Red hartebeest (beyond skittish)
Impala (Just not able to get within range)
Mountain Reedbuck (gruelling hunt)
Warthog (so close!!)
Bushpig (too nocturnal)
I can proudly advise that these species taught me more lessons about hunting and patience than any species I successfully harvested.

Also, I was able to secure a good deal for Aussie bowhunters on a property in the Eastern Cape. Anyone who is interested should PM me and I will share the details.

As for photos, I need to download them into photobucket, which has required time I just don't have!! I will do so within a couple of weeks.

Jake

[aussiehunter]

jake,thanks for the reply...would be happy to see the pics as im sure the other members would be interested as well..

its a shame their is always a bad side to everything..good old greed and ego rises their ugly heads again...

id be happy to have a pm from u when ur free sometime,or bring some info up in aug/sept...did u hunt in the same area as brad smith??
i saw his video the other day with his african game,very well done..

would it be correct to say that u may get better value hunting in africa than say the usa??

thanku pat...

[Jacob Goodwin]

Pat,

I believe Brad hunted in Zimbabwe not South Africa (I'm not sure).

Yes, I have been able to get a VERY good deal for Australians...much better than what US hunters are paying.

I'll PM you later this week with the full detail.

JAke

[Jacob Goodwin]

Coach,

Actually, there is fallow deer in Africa. Iwas fortunate enough to harvest one. Interestingly, a herd was released in the mid 1800's...for sport. Quite a bizarre event, considering the amount of game that exists in Africa!!!

Jake

[jason]

As for photos, I need to download them into photobucket, which has required time I just don't have!! I will do so within a couple of weeks.


It would take less time then them long a#se post you write :wink:

Would love to see the pics, were they all bow shot the game you took??

If you want someone to do it i will if you email me the photos i can put them in photobucket for ya,just let me know....

[Jacob Goodwin]

Jason,

Thanks for the offer. I might take you up on it!

To answer your question, my wife took her game (kudu/blesbok) with a rifle (30/06) as she is too impatient to hunt with a bow.

Unfortunately, my kudu and gemsbok were taken with a rifle (30/06), as I was recovering from a hernia repair operation (which itself is the subject of another story!) and wasn't comfortable shooting a bow until later in the season. After I fully recovered, I put the rifle in the safe (where it belongs!! HA HA!!).

Jake

[Pete]

coach wrote: Well , if they are rifle shot , they don't count Wink

Gotta say i disagree with that statement. I reckon that spot and stalking with a rifle is just as fair as bowhunters getting dressed up in scent-proof gear and sitting hidden in a strategically placed blind/hide on the edge of a man made waterhole (often the only one for a long distance) or feedlot waiting for the thirsty buggers to come in for a drink and knock em off with a bow. which is how alot of the game is shot by bowhunters in Afirca, or so i'm told. Just my opinion. :wink:

Pete F

[Jacob Goodwin]

Well , if they are rifle shot , they don't count

Yes, I agree. Further, your kudu or gemsbok is by far more impressive...oh wait a minute... :wink:

[Jacob Goodwin]

I'm glad you agree ,,,,,,,,, oh wait a minute .... you're being a ****** !

I fear you win the ****** prize...by quite a distance :lol:

[jason]

gotta agree with coach rifle shot game is not what we are interested in. Bow shot game only, rifles are for culling, bows are for hunting and game shot with a rifle on this site amount to the same score coach's "kudo and gemsbok"...zero.

[Luke]

Let's keep it civil please gentlemen and not let this turn to mud...:oops:

Luke ;)

[Pete]

yes this is abowhunting site but, i would like to say that while i believe that shooting animals with a rifle from far off distances isn't hard, i would like to say that there are rifle hunters who love to stalk into game 50-100m to take a shot, often well within the african species flight threshold. and bielieve is a much more even playing field than some blind huntnig that is done by bowhunters. believe it or not, often bowhunters shots from the blinds are taking at these same sought of ranges. just trying to say that just cause something is shot with a bow doesnt mean its done any more 'fair chase' than another method. :wink:

Pete F

[Paul R]

I agree with you 100% Pete.

Calling somebody names because you disagree with them also gets a score of zero IMO 8)

[Bowmancam]

there are rifle hunters who love to stalk into game 50-100m to take a shot,



My Nanna could do that, even with a plastic hip :roll: ...

I still get a laugh when i read shootin mags that talk about stalking in to distances around the 50-100 metre mark before they take the shot ... that aint stalkin', thats walkin' ... :roll:

Cheers, Cam

[Jacob Goodwin]

Hello all,

I wholeheartedly agree with everyone that bowhunting is much more challenging than rifle shooting.That's why I hunt with a bow! However, please note that there were TWO animals out of a decent list that were shot with a rifle, not including my wife's trophies. Also there was a fairly clear explanation as to WHY I used a rifle.

The reason for it being mentioned on this forum....I was ASKED by another member! :roll:

As for the TWO rifle shot animals "not counting"...tell that to my taxidermist..maybe he'll lower his fees. :lol:

Jake

[Scott]

Well I think if you take an animal with rifle or bow its still an acheivement. Its all up to the person and what they think and how they feel. I really dont think anybody should be judged without really knowing the person.
A few years back I had the chance to take a very big red deer with the bow. I hunted that animal for 6 weeks trying to get the drop on him, but it just didn't happen. I called my mate from Singleton with his 30/06 and I guided him in for great shot that put him down. If I could have that time over again I would pick up a rifle and shoot him myself. This is something that I have regretted since that day because he was such a magnificent animal and I would have been very proud to have a shoulder mount of him on the wall, he measured a very impressive 373dp! As far as I am aware it is the biggest red taken in Australia at the time. So I say well done Jacob on the game you have taken with the rifle.

cheers, Scott Goodwin (no relation I don't think :? )

[aussiehunter]

scott sorry mate,i cant agee with u on that...of course this is only my thoughts,but to chase a fine stag and find that he has beaten u and take him out with a rifle,im sorry no achievment in that...ive had rifles all my life since i was six. for a guy who bowhunts and then turns to take out that animal with a rifle,,im lost for words.....

hey each there own...but i cant agree with that...to hang that trophy on ur wall after shooting with a rifle imo no longer a hunter but a shooter..

i know u didnt shoot him,but why not leave him for another year and try again...wouldnt that mean more than taking the easy way and taking him out with a 30.06

these are my thoughts and everyone is welcome to theirs...

WHEN HUNTING WITH A RIFLE THE HUNT IS OVER ONCE U SPOT UR GAME

WHEN HUNTING WITH A BOW THE HUNT BEGINS WHEN U SPOT UR GAME

[Bowmancam]

you nailed it Pat ...


i agree 100%


Cheers, Cam

[macka]

Best of luck with the hunting jacob hope to see some nice billies in some pics.

Macka

[Luke]

Perhaps before bagging scott about the decision to shoot the stag with a rifle it might help to know there were certain circumstances surrounding that stag that required him to be 'culled'....
So, from what I know, Scott had other pressures on him that, to some extent, forced his hand in having to ask his mate to shoot the stag for him. He's said he regretted doing it, lets not rub it in hey? ;)

Scott can go into it further if he wishes but I don't think it really matters.

Remember, just like in bowhunting, to one person, the smallest nanny or scrawniest sow they've ever shot might represent their best and most valued trophy...makes no difference be it shot with a bow or a rifle...if the hunter/shooter holds it high in pride as an acheivement for him/herself, then so be it and far be it for anyone to say otherwise.

Yes we as bowhunters see what we do as more challenging but in my opinion until people who have never experienced the challenge of bowhunting get the chance to compare their acheivments in it, to rifle hunting acheivments only they can say what is and what is not a trophy worthy of their wall and their pride.

Luke :D

[jindydiver]

WHEN HUNTING WITH A RIFLE THE HUNT IS OVER ONCE U SPOT UR GAME

WHEN HUNTING WITH A BOW THE HUNT BEGINS WHEN U SPOT UR GAME

Not quite, but close enough I suppose.
As someone who uses a 30.06 to feed his family I have to say that I don't feel like I am hunting so much when I am carrying it, but there is still a bit of skill getting a deer on the ground with it.
Bucks in the rut are a different thing though and I couldn't call shooting them with a rifle hunting (not by a very long way), but I suppose people could put other obstacles in their way so that it makes the challenge harder and get some satisfaction at a job completed. Me, I just look at the shooting of deer with a rifle as a job.

[Luke]

I would also like to throw this thought into the ring...

Would it be possible that for some who hunts exclusively with trad gear to view game taken by someone who hunts with compounds in a similar light to how bowhunters (generally/stereotypically) view game taken with a rifle? :?

I mean, being able to take something at 50 or 60 m's with a compound is surely a bit easier than having to get within say, at least 20m's (depending on skills) with trad gear? :wink:

Just offering a different slant as food for thought...

Luke :D

[Jacob Goodwin]

To ensure my standing as a STAUNCH bowhunter, I firmly agree with Pat's view that bowhunting is much more challenging than rifle hunting. Further I wholeheartedly agree with his sentiments in respect of 'when the hunt starts/ends for rifle and bow"

The overwhelming majority of my African trophies were taken with a bow. Each of them represent an incredible experience and have the ability to "transport" me back to Africa every time I look at them. I suspect this is true for most of us.

I feared this would not be the case with the animals decided to hunt with the rifle (while I was healing). I put in place fairly strict rules in respect of maximum shooting distances (50 metres) and, more importantly, the age/sex of animal to be shot (only post-prime males -who were out of the breeding cycle). I hoped this would ensure a positive experience. While these rifle hunts were not as enjoyable as the bow hunts, I still remember them fondly and am able to be "transported back" when I look at the outcome hanging on my wall.

However, my time in Africa has taught me that the hunter/shooter distinction really lies the ethical framework in which you operate in the field, regardless of hunting method. To be honest, I encountered rifle-hunting clients who possess incredible discipline around what they shoot (age/gender/etc), how they shoot it (distance/ensuring capability/ shooting skill) and the approach taken toward game (dignity/respect).
In fact, these guys blow away some members in my own bowhunting club, including one individual who regularly brags about sighting in his bow on goats and shooting adult goats at 50 metres (appalling).

[Scott]

Lukes right here fella's and Gee's dont get me wrong I would've been over the moon to have got him with the Bow. I am one of the most dedicated bowhunters you are ever likely to meet. The cocky had alot of pressure on me to put put this fella away, if I didnt do it he was going to. So instead of shooting him with a rifle my self (which I didn't feel right about at the time, because I am a Bowhunter) I handed it to a mate. Believe me Pat if I could have left him for another year I would have. All I was saying in support of people who shoot with rifles, dont bag all of them. There are some guys out there who are real hunters with a rifle. I am coming up to my 20th year with the bow and I hunted with a rifle 20 years before that. There is nothing like bowhunting as far as I am concerned, but sometimes you might just have to do what works at the time, regardless of the out come. And yes I would still be proud to have such a magnificent animal, even shot with a rifle. Scott

[aussiehunter]

FIRST off i really wish to make it known it was never my intention to bag scott....maybe as luke has said there may have been other reasons..did that animal have to be shot etc other facts that i dont know......

look i realise there are hunters out there that do use a rifle and only try to bag a better stag than the year before,i know of one bloke who hasnt let off a shot in 5 years even though he is in the thickest deer country around,purely he waiting for the right one..i respect that ....

and also for example jindy,he regulary takes deer for the pot with a 3006,he as he says his doing a job,i totally agree with that...

in ref to luke with trad versus compounds,well i am only new to the trad challenge and i would have to say its a new world in some ways..i think that has all been hashed to death ,as long as what ever style u use ,u know ur limits and u know ur game and u know where to put that razor sharp broadhead,well all good..i like using this saying

"ARCHERS LIKE TO SEE HOW ACCURATE THEY ARE AT DISTANCES"
"BOWHUNTERS LIKE TO SEE HOW CLOSE THEY CAN GET BEFORE THEY SHOOT..."


to be honest to get to the point i was really trying to understand the reason SCOTT would want to shoot that stag with a rifle after he had been trying so hard for 6 weeks...i really should have just ask the question,as i said before never my intention to bag scott or to start a bow versus rifle thingy..

because when it comes down to it,and i have said this before these are only my thoughts,i am no one special...and i do respect other rights to hunt as they please with what they choose ,i just hope they do it in an ethical/lawful manner...thanku pat :D

[Luke]

point taken mate...thanks for taking the time..

sorry if I came across too harshly, was in a rush to get to work...no excuse but just a reason.

I'm sure we're all on the same page now with this matter.

Luke :D

[aussiehunter]

scott and i must have been replying at the same time...

i also like to say if i have been out of order with my comments i do apologise,

i was just trying to understand why,it seemed strange...

just goes to show,get all the facts before u start typing...lol...

lesson learnt :roll:

all the best guys...

cheers pat :D