Game Licence

[Sparra]

Gaday fella's..Just curious to know how many people in here that are in NSW have obtained a game licence so that they can hunt deer on private lands....And how many have tried to get one so they can hunt anything on public lands...
Regards...Sparra

[jindydiver]

Sparra
There is no restricted licence to apply for and the way the Game Council is making excuses of late I suspect there will be no «É˙R«É˘ licence anytime soon.

I run into a lot of deer hunters in my travels and one thing seems to unite all the fellows I have met, and that is that they all feel the Game Council can stick there new tax on deer hunting clean up their ***.

[Sparra]

I know there isn't an R-licence Jindy but im just trying to make a point..After my replies on the poaching thread some of the replies seem to tar everybody with the same brush.
What i would like to know is if all the goat and pig hunters in here were on a property hunting and a deer presented itself would they take the shot although they did not have a licence(g-licence for deer on private lands).
i think they would and therefore legally falling under the same "poaching heading"as the guy that goes into national parks and private property without permission.
But as Rinaldo pointed out the law is the law so i hope you all abide by it and if you don't maybe have a think about it before you post in a poaching thread tarring everyone with the same brush...
The game council web site is saying they are sending out submissions for the r-licence shortly so so hopefully everyone can join a club,do the test and become a legal hunter.
Just the way i see it...
Regards...Sparra

[rinaldo]

I know one person who would not take the shot, COACH, it was very early morning in the middle of town no one else around except Coach, 2 Fallow at 20m and myself. He reasoned taking a shot might end up with a situation where we had to blood trail a deer into someones yard, as he put it " it will look very bad for bowhunters". Good on you Coach I take my hat off to you.

[Sparra]

Gay Rin...any body would be a fool to take a shot in town but if it were out on private lands???I think it would be goodnight deer....

[rinaldo]

Gay Rin...any body would be a fool to take a shot in town but if it were out on private lands???I think it would be goodnight deer....


How does that make it Gay?

[jindydiver]

Then for what it is worth Sparra, here is my opinion on the issue you have raised.

National parks and state forests are the property of the people while private property is owned by the individual (or business, same diff«ÉŸ). The hunting of game in a NP of SF is not at all like the hunting of game (without permission) on private property. The people that would do either are still giving bow hunting a bad name, but the guy that hunts private property (without permission) deserves a flogging while the guy hunting NP or SF deserves everything that they get when they get caught.

As for the issue of deer. I think that the fallow in NSW don«ÉŸt need some new regulations to protect them. They have been hunted by people with no restriction, including by pro hunters, for as long as they have been here and they are still expanding in range and numbers. Who can possibly justify the new laws preventing farmers have sporting shooters control deer numbers on their own land without the sporting shooters first paying for a permit. The permit is a tax, pure and simple.
They have also introduced a closed season on fallow. The excuse given is «É˙to increase the quality of the fallow herd«É˘. What complete bull****. Quality deer management is all about determining numbers of deer (both sexes) and the holding capacity of the land, and adjusting the population through hunting. Preventing sporting shooters from hunting during a closed season, while allowing farm managers (or their employees only, no giving the job to hunters) and pro shooters to shoot whatever they want (with no regard to genetics or any other pointers towards increasing the «É˙quality«É˘ of the herd) makes a lie of the game councils claims of doing it in the name of QDM.

If the game council were to offer us something in return for this tax they would have much more support. And before anybody tries to tell us that «É˙they are offering hunting in State Forests«É˘, that requires the purchase of an extra permit (another tax) and is not offered to us as part of buying the «É˙G«É˘ licence.


And as for the issue of Pedro being caught out hunting in a NP. Shame on all those that would hang the man before finding out the facts behind the incident. Believing all the **** you read in the papers, and the Chinese whispers of the bow hunting community, and wanting to hang a man based on those things alone and before finding out what really happened, is shameful. Some people are so hanging out to hang **** on others that they will do it without knowing anything of the truth.

[Trophy Bowhunts]

Poaching..

Is the act of hunting on property without the permission of the property owner or holder...

(sneaking onto a property to hunt animals)

Illegal Act..

The act of hunting game that is either protected or is licenced...

(hunting animals which you are not entitled to)


So given the above they are as bad as each other to our sport.....

But they are also different and I believe they are as bad as each other and all game taken as above should not be claimed or given any recognition....& hunters should be sounded out as such....

You can Poach and not take game but you can't do an illegal act unless you get game except for State Forests or NP in Qld where you cannot be walking around with a firearm or bow in the park....

Hope this all makes sense....

Mick

[jindydiver]

The problem down here Mick, is that the deer were ours to shoot anytime we wanted (of course you had to have permission from the land manager) and now we have to buy a licence to do it. The pro shooter also pays for his permit and can then shoot in the closed season (closed to the average hunter but not to the pros or the farmer).
The rationale given by the game council for allowing the farmers to shoot the deer whenever they want is that it is their land and they can manage it as they see fit. But at the same time they tell us that if the farmer asks us to do the job (because he is too busy, or he just likes hunters or whatever, but a management decision none the less) then we can«ÉŸt until we have bought a permit (read, paid a tax). The farmers management problem and solution are the same either way, so why the need for permits on private property (or closed seasons for that matter).
If I am hunting on private property at the behest of the farmer why do I now need to pay a tax to do it?
What exactly is being achieved by forcing hunters to buy a permit?
If the farmer needs or wants some deer taken then we should be allowed to do it without having some Gov«ÉŸ ******s telling us we need to buy a licence to do it.

Many State Forests across the state allowed hunting if you went and sought permission and paid a fee (to cover their expenses, sometimes as little as $30 for the year), but the Game Council has now come along and declared that the system is all changed now and you need one or their permits first.
The problem Sparra has referred to is that the Game Council«ÉŸs system isn«ÉŸt actually in place yet (and may not be this year even) and yet the old system is removed and the forests are closed already.

[Trophy Bowhunts]

Jindy I understand your plight...and it looks like it sucks..

The government bodies have absolutely no idea and decissions are made by people who have no idea.....so what do you get,,,,a F#$ked up system to start with....

We are lucky so far in Qld when it comes to deer they are called feral here and permits have long gone...hope it stays this way...

Good luck in working it out....

Mick

PS...I would be surprised if the law has been passed yet as they have not got the system in place....check it out....and if they can't support their answer they won't be able to in a court of law....

[jindydiver]

The legislation was enacted last October.

These guys do not have the resources to enforce the laws and rely on the good will of the hunters they purport to represent. But while they fob off our concerns with government speak press releases they will not be able to gain any meaningful support from the hunters.

If you are going to alienate the people you are trying to reach by declaring from above what is best for us, rather than asking us, then you are bound to have real issues with enforcement.


Here is a thread from Ozbow on the same subject and with a crap reply from the head of the GC.

http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1981&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[PeterM]

Hey!

Like been said lets see how there going to police it, FAT Chance!

It«ÉŸs just another Tax applied for the revenue preposes to provide no result or use!

I«ÉŸm not getting one! And I like to see them stop me shooting any animal or deer on my selected places.

See ya Pete.

[Sparra]

HaaHaa..Sorry Rin..i was saying gaday,not gay...thanks for the reply's Jindy,you have explained it better than i have so i hope people in other states can see what we are up against.Its just a shame that now in the eye's of the law we are all tarred with the same brush.
Regards...Sparra

[rinaldo]

I can see a hole in some of these arguments, a land owner gives you permission to hunt on his land but is the deer on his land considered his property. If the deer are not considered his property then who is do they belong to? If a landowner had a herd of deer on his property and he wanted the whole lot wiped out would you do it? Maybe this is one example where some sort of control would come in handy. Just playing Devils advocate.

[jindydiver]

I can see a hole in some of these arguments, a land owner gives you permission to hunt on his land but is the deer on his land considered his property. If the deer are not considered his property then who is do they belong to?


There is no hole. When a feral animal is on a farmers property it is his property. The Gov«ÉŸ see it this way and thus we see notices given by the rural lands protection boards to farmers who don«ÉŸt control rabbit population on their land. That is why the GC allows for the farmer to shoot the deer on their property, not because they want to defer to the farmers rights, but because they have no choice, they can«ÉŸt claim in one instance that feral animals are the farmers responsibility and in another that they are owned by the state (or some such argument). If the farmer wasn«ÉŸt able to claim the deer as his own then the Gov«ÉŸ would expect to receive plenty of bills for agistment of the states deer.

If a landowner had a herd of deer on his property and he wanted the whole lot wiped out would you do it?

If a farmer asked me to wipe out a herd of deer I am afraid I would decline. I would suggest the farmer hire a pro shooter who can make use of the deer so as they are not wasted. No control is needed. This situation existed under the old system and it does still exist under the present regime. It has made no difference to the population explosion of the deer (that we can tell, or care about) and would make no real difference if it were to happen somewhere in the future. Just last year 800 deer from the Tarago herd were shot and sold to the chillers over a 3 week period, and no-one could possibly argue that the herd has suffered adversely.


Maybe this is one example where some sort of control would come in handy. Just playing Devils advocate.

Handy for who? Are you saying that the government should be able to wield even greater powers over the farmers of NSW?

[jimbo]

i fully support the game licence and the game council.my name is already put down on the register for me to become a tester for the "r"licence at nepean hunters club(greatest club in the world). due to the game council i have already got access to 3 properties to help control deer and goat numbers.its very easy to hang **** on people that are trying to do something to benefit others ,look at the big picture instead of just your little patch.if the gc can sell enough licences to make the state govt happy then they will hopefully get alot more pull politicly.then they can try to stop the npws culling deer get us access to np. the biggest issue we face in our sport is access to property for people to hunt .no access no hunting then no hunters.i believe every licence sold is one more nail taken out of the coffin for hunters. the state govt is giving us a chance to take control of our future and all people want to do is ***** about $60.yes things are taking a while to happen but this is what happens when you deal with politicians.alot of people on this sight talk big about helping to save hunting heres your chance put your money where your mouth is i did

[Axe]

Hey Jimbo, your entitled to your opinion, & should be respected, but, does it need to end with "put your money where your mouth is"? 8)

[jindydiver]

i fully support the game licence and the game council.my name is already put down on the register for me to become a tester for the "r"licence at nepean hunters club(greatest club in the world).

Another bone of contention among those of us that are looking at the GC as an unwanted intrusion. We now have to be paid up members of a club if we want to get an «É˙R«É˘ licence (which doesn«ÉŸt mean much at present as there are no «É˙R«É˘ licences on offer).

due to the game council i have already got access to 3 properties to help control deer and goat numbers.

This would be a by product of the campaign that the GC has going where they tell farmers that only licence holders are allowed legally to take the deer and that only licence holders have the insurance policy to protect the farmers from the big bogyman of liability. The GC can then offer these properties to people in their loop and make out that they alone are the source of good hunting in the state.

its very easy to hang **** on people that are trying to do something to benefit others ,look at the big picture instead of just your little patch.if the gc can sell enough licences to make the state govt happy then they will hopefully get alot more pull politicly.then they can try to stop the npws culling deer get us access to np.

«É˙Hopefully«É˘ «É˙try«É˘, doesn«ÉŸt sound very positive at all really. And as for the issue of the deer culls, what makes you think they give a **** about stopping the culls? They specifically allow these culls in their legislation as the management of all lands are the right and responsibility of the land managers. And so as there is no confusion on this issue, the GC has said that they are not looking at even trying to get hunting allowed in National Parks. They have been at it a year now and they still can«ÉŸt get hunting opened up in even the most remote State Forest, how do you think they are ever going to convince the anti brigade at NSWNPWS that hunting would be a good thing in any NP.


the biggest issue we face in our sport is access to property for people to hunt .no access no hunting then no hunters.i believe every licence sold is one more nail taken out of the coffin for hunters.

Yes, and when the GC becomes the arbiter of where and when you shoot then you will be beholden to yet another Gov«ÉŸ Dept«ÉŸ for the future of your sport.

the state govt is giving us a chance to take control of our future and all people want to do is ***** about $60.

Personally I couldn«ÉŸt give two ****s about the $60, I loose that much in arrows some months. What I care about is the lack of transparency in the workings of the GC and their total lack of respect for the hunters in NSW. Read the thread I linked to at OzBow and you will see that although at least 6 good and important questions were raised they deigned to answer only 1, and that was via an email (they refused to engage in real discussion). That incident alone certainly makes them look like people with something to hide.


yes things are taking a while to happen but this is what happens when you deal with politicians.

The politicians you refer to are out of the picture now and either way, we elect politicians and the people who are running things now are appointed. If we don«ÉŸt agree to their policy in some area then we can«ÉŸt force the issue into the open by threatening to vote them out, we can only make enough noise that hopefully they will listen. And when they refuse to listen or discuss the issues we raise (as in the OzBow example) we just have to suck eggs as these guys are salaried individuals and not beholden to us in any way.

alot of people on this sight talk big about helping to save hunting heres your chance put your money where your mouth is i did

Yes and by purchasing a licence you have validated their position nicely. Maybe it is you who could stand to look at the big picture instead of jumping on the band wagon so you can hunt a few properties that the GC has offered you.

[jimbo]

i havn't just jumped on the band wagon because of a couple of propertys. i have supported the idea of a gc and licence for alot of years.when the anti's come knocking on the door again if every hunter in nsw had a game licence the govt would show the anti's the door. only when hunters become a valuable resource for the govt will we have a solid future for our sport i will admit there is alot of room for improvement in the game laws but the gc is trying to fix these problems but it does take time.the people in the gc are mostly hunters and have the best for there sport in mind.why not ring your local game officer and have a chat see if he will come out to your archery club and talk to you they will probably be more than abligingall the game officers are hunters themselves. the gc and licence are here to stay why not try to make the most of it

[jindydiver]

i havn't just jumped on the band wagon because of a couple of propertys. i have supported the idea of a gc and licence for alot of years.when the anti's come knocking on the door again if every hunter in nsw had a game licence the govt would show the anti's the door.

And how many hunters would it take before the Gov«ÉŸ took us seriously? Did they take into account the number of firearms owners when they decided to ban whole groups of firearms. I would bet there were more firearms owners in NSW at that time than there are hunters in NSW who hunt «É˙game«É˘ now.

only when hunters become a valuable resource for the govt will we have a solid future for our sport

As above I would like to know how many hunters you think it would take to become «É˙a valuable resource «É˙?
Duck hunters thought the same thing. The licences were brought in and then the fees were increased to squeeze the hunters out, until there were so few hunters on the books that they just canned the duck season.
How many hunters have to buy a licence before the GC even breaks even? And if the do manage to break even in the next few years, what if the money raised by the number of licences sold fails to keep up with the cost of the bureaucracy? Do they just keep raising the price to keep up? And when they fold, what happens to the hunters then? The GC will have all the farmers scared ****less about having hunters on their properties without the insurance cover the GC offered and then they will close of all access.

i will admit there is alot of room for improvement in the game laws but the gc is trying to fix these problems but it does take time.

One part of the regulations that needs fixing is the closed season on fallow deer. They do not need protecting and the fact that farmers and pro shooters are allowed to shoot them all year long makes the laws stopping you and me from shooting them for near half the year a complete farce. What makes you think they are working on it at all? And fixing that would take a stroke of a pen, no time at all, but the GC doesn«ÉŸt even want to discuss the issue, let alone do anything about it.

And as for the elusive «É˙R«É˘ licence. The GC gives all sorts of excuses as for why it takes so long to negotiate the access to State Forests, but we all know the issues must surely be simple to resolve. After all Victoria doesn«ÉŸt seem to have these access problems the GC is talking about. What is so different in NSW?


the people in the gc are mostly hunters and have the best for there sport in mind.why not ring your local game officer and have a chat see if he will come out to your archery club and talk to you they will probably be more than abligingall the game officers are hunters themselves. the gc and licence are here to stay why not try to make the most of it


And what exactly do you think there is to «É˙make the most of«É˘. They have offered nothing except empty promises and press releases. Did you read the OzBow thread? The head of the GC was invited to put his arguments forward on all these issues and make converts of us all, but he declined. If the head of the organisation couldn«ÉŸt bring himself to defend the GC«ÉŸs policies, then what belief can we hold that his workers would be any more forthcoming?

[rinaldo]

I will give Steven Hurt who is on the GC a call and see if he would like to add to the debate. It would be nice to get both sides of the story.

[Mozza]

sounds like a good idea Rin, because I recon Jindy makes some bloody good points and it would be good to hear the other side of the story

[jindydiver]

Please do Rin. That would be great if you could get a representative of the GC to give us some answers that will address these issues.

I am more than willing to listen to any explanations they can give us, and I am sure many here and on other Australian hunting sites would also like to hear from them.

I am especially interested in what science the GC used when it decided on the closed season on fallow for you and I, while still allowing pro shooters to take deer (without restriction) and how this arrangement could possibly be in the interests of deer «É˙quality«É˘, which is the explanation given in one of their press releases. Was any science used or is our system just a hodgepodge of various overseas models put together in haste just so we could say we have a system, no matter how bad?

Getting people to fall into line with any new system requires of the regulators that they explain the rational behind decisions and bring the people along with them on the journey, rather than the way the GC has handled this, with inadequate press releases and edicts handed down from on high.
They are so hung up on using the «É˙carrot and the stick«É˘ approach of offering big rewards (hunting in State Forests) and fines for non compliance that they are instead dragging us kicking and screaming into the fold.
I would dare say that if the GC was being more up front with the decisions and spent more time giving real explanations for decisions to the hunters they would have a much bigger support base out there than they have at present.

The closed season is a great example. The regulations were in force months before the closed season was to begin and yet the first hint of it from the game council was an advertisement in the shooting mags issued the month the season closed. One professional guide I know, who keeps up with all these things as best he can (half the year he guides hunters on the fallow) had no idea that there was a closed season on fallow until I mentioned it just before Christmas. The GC«ÉŸs communications with the public must be pretty lacklustre for guys like that to be left out of the loop, especially on issues that affect his livelihood so profoundly.

And I want to thank you, Rinaldo and Jimbo for engaging in this debate so that the issues can be put on the table. And also for doing so in a sensible way without resorting to playing the man instead of the ball.

[rinaldo]

I ve just got off the phone to the game council and advised them of this thread, they are going to look in. Best thing is I am going hunting on Sat. they got some goats they want got rid of at a property. Woo Hooo :D

[maxy]

I hold a current Game licence in NSW and from where i sit, spending the $60 odd bucks, doesnt just mean i can now legally hunt deer in NSW, it also means that i am covoured by $10 million dollars in insurance while i am doing so. I have been knocked back on a couple of properties because of public liability, so i jumped at the chance to get it by getting a licence.

I relize that many arnt happy because this is just another way the govnt are controlling us, and to a certain extent i agree but at the end of the day, i think this is inevitable.

It is interesting that a major thread to a lot of posts on this site suggest that we need to become a number to support bowhunting and hunting in general, by joining a club etc. Well, wouldnt getting a game licence be an excellent oppurtunity to become a number? If no one signs up then i do beleive that it will send a message to the Gov that there are not many people interested in legally shooting deer in NSW. We all know thats bull****, but do they?

Maxy

[HOOD]

Can't wait to see what the GC have to say after reading all this. :roll:

Hood 8)

[rinaldo]

Our club has applied to the GC so we can begin testing and issuing of licences when the R licenece becomes available. A chap named Steven Hurt from the GC contacted the club and explained the situation with liceneces etc and has guided us down the path so we can become accredited with the GC.

I dont know all the ins and out about the GC and its licences, but I do know that Steven is very enthusiastic about hunting, himself being a hunter and archer. He is very pro hunting and if he is anything to go by I feel that we will be in good hands.

Every time you see or hear one of these antis on TV or on the radio where are the hunters or their reps to give the other side of the story?
If a worker is hurt or unfairly dismissed or ripped off you have a union rep getting on TV putting forward the employees side of the story.

There is a bowhunting association in this country but I feel they do sweet FA when it comes to representing their members, just my opinion, thats one reason I refuse to join. When was the last time you saw their mugs on TV or heard them on radio going into bat for hunters?

I would rather give the GC my money and give them a go, they have to be better than the alternative. I dont want to turn this into a association bashing excercise.

I have only been hunting for 2yrs but I dearly love my short time spent in the bush and I dont want it taken from me due to apathy.

[HOOD]

Rin I to have only been hunting for 3.5yrs and would hate for it to be out lawed due to some pen pushing desk jokey that has no isea of what is really going on in the real world of bowhunting and hunting in general.

Hood 8)

[rinaldo]

Rin I to have only been hunting for 3.5yrs and would hate for it to be out lawed due to some pen pushing desk jokey that has no isea of what is really going on in the real world of bowhunting and hunting in general.

Hood


Cant agree with you more, the only person I have met from the GC is Steven and he seems like a heads up sort of bloke that has been hunting longer than both of us. 8)

[jimbo]

rin those goats you are going to hunt are the most alert goats you will ever hunt don't hunt them like goats or your hunt will be very short they are as hard to hunt as any deer.ring me and i will tell you the lay of the land and how best to approach it. signed jamie of nepean hunters.

[Sparra]

Gaday Fella's....I was wondering after Maxi's post about insurance whether you are still covered on private property when you are not hunting deer as you don't need a licence to hunt anything else on private lands...I originally started this thread to point out that quite a few people bagging poachers,were themselves doing the wrong thing by chasing deer in NSW without a licence and i must say after reading all the posts i today sent off for my licence...when it arrives i might be able to go and chase goats with Rin because if they are giving out property's for licence holders they really have to offer them to all who have one..or is it only a select few????Having said that we do have a game council fella down here in Batemans Bay who will be severely hounded for property's to hunt on as at the moment that is there big selling point...
Regards...Sparra

[rinaldo]

One of the positive things about the establishment of the GC is that hunting has been recognised as a legitimate pastime at a governmental level. Which must be a good thing with the many anti hunting groups putting pressure on governments at State and Federal levels.

[the devils right hand man]

it is great to see a honest debate with passion on both sides seem to com to a happy ending i have a great deal of dealings with these people i hold them all in great esteem even the office chicks hunt and one of them with dogs so i belive there heart is in the right place i too had my reservations but now i hold one of the many books of licences for sale and i dont have one my self as i dont want to hunt public land or hunt deer [ive already hung them on the wall years ago]and to the team at the gc and tradies
your all welcome to hunt with me on my propeties at any time it would be great if we could all just get together and do what we all love, hunt .

[rinaldo]

when it arrives i might be able to go and chase goats with Rin because if they are giving out property's for licence holders they really have to offer them to all who have one..or is it only a select few???? No its not only for a select few, you are more than welcome to come along.