extreme FOC carbons

[brian]

guys i've just been looking at the kustomking and threerivers internet catalogues and have noticed these brass inserts and steel adaptors. looks very interesting. just wondering if any of you guys use these on your carbons and how they fly/penetrate. it seems that if you can get the dynamic spine right, then you could have a nice heavy hunting arrow and not have to stuf around with weight tubes, add on weights and all that. this has me very interested in the possibilities for hunting arrows, as up untill now the major drawback for me with carbons was getting a really good weight arrow, and keeping dynamic spine in control.

[bear]

gday brian,
I use them with my gold tips to increase weight to 750 gr and adjust them to gain 10% foc in conjuction with tusker astecs and they do the job very well on top end critters out of a 70# recurve.

Bear

[brian]

so ru using weight tubes and brass/steel inserts/addaptors bear?

[pete w]

Flight is great with a ton of weight up front as long as the spine is good.
I use the brass inserts, and steel adapters with Tusker Aztecs.That is giving me a 275 gr broadhead plus the brass inserts.They total weight up front is 350 grains.I am using Easton ,Epic and Excell shafts.My FOC is around 42%.

[brian]

do you find it difficult to find the right dynamic spine with all that weight up front, or is it less critical due to this weight? also do you need to choose really stiff shaft spines for the bow used, or is it again not so critical? i find this whole bussiness very intriging after hearing some reports of amazing flight characteristics on other forums. the target archers have been saying for years that the best flight comes from about 10-15% foc. what the hell is going on here?

[pete w]

It seems that carbons are a diferent animal when it comes to FOC.I have no Idea why.I am getting good results with carbons that are shooting weights from 125 to 275 from the same bows and with the same shafts.All of my arrows now have the 100gr brass inserts.I use the easton carbons because they are the cheapest and stand up just as well as the more expensive ones.
As for the target archer I doubt that any of them have ever tried this much weight.I also doubt that adding this much would make a good target arrow.Those guys shoot light weight arrows at longer distances than we do.Flat Trajectory is what they are looking for.My intrest is in a hunting arrow.
Carbons seem to be very forgiving to weight at the front, in fact I have found they like it.I do notice that with this much weight you ned substantial fletching.3 4x 3/4" shields fletched helical are borderline adequate with heavy FOC, but 5" shields or Bananas seem perfect.6" Bananas are superb.The Azetc is a big head also so it will need some big fletches.

If the brass inserts are not available over there a 6mm/243 bullet epoxied behind the standard insert works great.Put a point in the insert to keep the threads clear when you install them.

More problems arise from to stiff a shaft with carbon than with weaker spines.

[brian]

i must say this is an intriging topic for me. pete - i'm living in japan at the moment and i have a 50lb recurve on the way. i've also ordered some vapor vmax shafts from kustom king (4000 model - 55-70lb). i draw about 28 1/2 - 29 inches (not exactly sure) so i thought i'd be safe to go with the stiffer shaft, keep it long and try some fairly heavy point weights. whats your opinion on this setup, and how much weight up-front do you think i'll need? they'll have 5" feathers on them.

[pete w]

It is realy hard to guess as so much depends on the bow's performance, amount of centercut and the individuals release.
I don't think it is so much of how much you need, rather how much you can get away with.

Bottom line is you will want a minimum of 8 graind per pound of draw at your draw length.From there you can go up untill they fly best or don't fly well.
I have good acces to weight to add so it is easy for me to explore.Normaly I am finding that point weights of 200 grains always fly good on every bow I tested with carbon shafts.Some I use are 350gr.

At times I simply built up the point end with black tape to determine if more weight was realy needed.They looked like rubber blunts but gave me the answers.Surprisingly they flew good too.

[brian]

thanx mate, you certainly know your s##t- so to speek. i will give these 200gr heads a try and see what it takes to get the perfect arrow flight. i think the hardest part for me now is just waiting for my gear to arrive from the states!!! :roll: :wink: :shock: have you tested or tried the carbon vapor vmax arrows before pete?

[pete w]

I have not shot the Vmax shafts.I pretty much stick to Easton/Beman shafts.They are very consistant in spine and weight.
Good luck