National Parks

[Trophy Bowhunts]

Just a little bit of info I found out yesterday....

I was talking to Parks & Wildlife Regional Manager the other day in relation to hunting in National Parks in Queensland. He advised as there was no lobby group for the Bowhunters in this country and the government had no interest in opening these areas up to any form of hunting. He went on to say that for example The Horse Riders Association & 4wd Associations throughout australia have been lobbying the government to open up these areas for their own recreational activities. Horse Riding & 4wdriving.

Now this surprised me greatly that no Bowhunting organisation had done this yet (In Qld that is, as it would appear that other states must be getting lobbied as things are happening maybe I am wrong).

As the ABA is supposidly the National Body for Bowhunting is there anybody out there willing to advise if this info is correct and if so why would our National Body not be lobbying in some way to open up new hunting grounds.

I see a great opportunity for the Australian Bowhunters and Parks & Wildlife opperating hand in hand to help reduce Ferals numbers and provide revenue to enhance our Parks & Wildlife system by way of facilites for all of the public. It could be controled by allocating Registered Safari Operators with Commercial Hunting Licences thus helping all hunters to gain access to otherwise closed country.

I have thought about individuals gaining a hunting licence but then how would the Parks & Wildlife control the hunting activities. Would we expect them to then run around acting as guides for the hunter. Also if 20 hunters where in the same park I could see some major problems as we are all not so accomodating when out hunting.

It could be a great opportunity to have new Safari operators enter the business, hows that for being diplomatic :lol: :lol:

I can see the cogs moving as I write this..........Coach should be first.. :lol:

What do you lads recon or is there another resonable way the government could implement hunting in these areas. I wouldn't see them expecting to spend money on this unless they could see a worthwhile result.

But back to my intital question is the ABA lobbying the government on anything at all or are they just sitting back and doing nothing. Would like to hear from anybody in the know.

Regards
Mick

[Bowmancam]

I was amazed to find out the other day that hunters in Victoria not only hunt their parks but they also (correct me if i'm wrong) have free reign. A mate of mine just got back and told me their was about 20 different hunters in the valley he was hunting :shock: .... He shot (rifle) a nice hind but i started thinking what if a fully clad cammo bow hunter spends 4 hours on a stalk only for a rifle hunter to shoot his quary from 300 metres...

I would love to oneday hunt my local national park and its rusa! .. but i'm not holding my breath.


Cheers, Cam

[Trophy Bowhunts]

Thats exactly what I expected you to say.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Can you offer any other suggestions as how it could otherwise work. I'm all ears.....

Love debates...

Mick

[Barry]

Mick,

ABA has not made any submissions and as far as I know are not planning to do so. I would do so on behalf of ABA but I know my efforts would be too controlled (read: watered down) that I will not.

However we can as a website and organisation (TBGA) make an application on behalf of Bowhunters. I have in conjunction with Glenn started to do exactly that. How effective that would be is unknown....

No offense but I'm not sure I like the idea of it being granted to 'operators' this makes the ability to hunt the land limited to those with funds which may be good for me but not so sure about the general fairness of it.

In previous threads Jindy has made reference to the use of seasons (which on private land is rediculous) but which could be used as in the states to distiguish between hunting classes ie rifle, bow etc (answers one of Cams concerns).

This type of system can bring with it revenue which is the appeal for the NP&W and can fund enforcement activities (certainly better than they are now).

However this type of activity in part becomes self enforcing, it removes the appeal of poaching, provides a framework for organisations to self regulate ie ABA (if it were effective).

The states may be a different enviroment and situation but there are still many lessons we can learn from thier system....

[Reece]

How is all this handled in other countries (other than the USA)?

[Piggy]

In Vic they open national parks ( only certain areas )to hunt Deer deer and only for a specific period of time.
I read ( also on the news) where the sporting shooters association is trailing hunters hunting national parks in vic to help control feral animals.
These are heavily regulated, I believe you have to pass a safety and marksmanship course and be accompined by a parks represintive but as i said this a trial.

[humphrey]

Cam,

At ceratin times of the year you can hunt in national parks in Victoria. If you have a game licence you can hunt deer there during the winter months, but for some strange reason not feral animals. (i think :shock: ).
You can hunt state forest anytime for ferals, deer, etc.

I wonder what valley your mate was in to have to share it with 20 hunters. It was probably around the Eildon area. I hunt in areas that hold ok numbers of deer and have never come across a single other person.

[humphrey]

ah, you beat me to it piggy.

[Trophy Bowhunts]

Baz..

This is what I'm getting at, its good to see that people can band together and try to start Lobbying to achieve results.

Mate if you need anything from me, i'll help anyway that I can.

Suggestions as to how we can lobby for these areas and how we as a group can put to the Government ideas which they may see as an advantage to them. I believe all the current websites could put something together as a group.

It would need to be signed off as such and as many members as possible to sign a petition or support letter of some description. This could be downloaded from the site and then posted to a address for collation and forwarding with the submission.

It is a lot of work but the more who get involved the easier it is....

You know this is how you start a new association that would hopefully not sit on their hands. We have natural leaders within the sites and we have many ideas people so utilisation of these people is paramont. So if people are seroius about change. put your hand up and be counted.

I don't see it working if we leave things to a select few but I believe we could have groups all over Australia getting together and forming a group to look at certain aspects of any ideas put forward.

Then as each topic is fomalised it gets put into the submission to the government in each state. United we conquer divided we fall. Time is slowly running out and if we sit back we will see our sport slowly die through lack of conviction.

Just my thoughts. All this prompted by a phone call.

Mick

[ricochet]

Here in Victoria we are able to hunt in SOME AREAS of National parks,,there are still huge areas still closed to any hunting,but the areas that are open are FOR THE HUNTING OF DEER ONLY,you must have a current Victorian deer licence,and you are not able to hunt any other animal in the parks but the DEER,there are areas set aside for stalking only with others for both stalkers and dogs

NEWZEALAND

Hunting is allowed in National parks in New Zealand,over there they are more attuned to hunting,


I was amazed to find out the other day that hunters in Victoria not only hunt their parks but they also (correct me if i'm wrong) have free reign

It is not a free reign as such,but we have large areas where hunting(for deer only ) is available

Rick

[jindydiver]

How is all this handled in other countries (other than the USA)?

Seeing as the game council promotes itÌs program by telling us all it is Ïbased on worlds best practiceÓ you would thing it would resemble the US system a little more. One thing we must remember is that in Australia, deer are a feral species and their continued survival is at odds with the interests of most land managers. On the other hand, the deer in the US are a prized native resource and they have had over 100 years of regulation to sort out all the bugs. We most positively do not want to get a system based on the European model. There are very onerous restrictions on hunters in parts of Europe and if our country adopted those it would be the death of hunting as we know it.

I can give a broad description of the way it works in the US and most of Canada, but I may have some of the detail incorrect as I have only one hunt in Canada and most of my knowledge comes second hand.

Most states in North America have a generic hunters licence that must be bought before you can walk the woods with your firearm or bow. Depending on the state there are various animals that may be hunted without restriction, but in most states, all game (including in some states feral pigs) requires you buy a specific ÏtagÓ for the species and sex you intend to take.
There are often separate seasons for archery and for firearms, and in some states there are even black powder seasons. Most hunters resist this breaking up of the season as it just reduces the time that some hunters can spend out hunting. An example is that rifle shooters have their own season and so do BP guys but the BP guys can shoot throughout the rifle season also, and the archers have their own season (normally very early on when the deer are still in velvet) but they can also hunt during the rest of the PB and firearms seasons.

When it comes to public land the game numbers are carefully monitored and the number of hunters wanting to hunt far outweigh the number of available animals, so a ballot is held (like the Blond Bay Hog deer) to select who is lucky enough to hunt that year. Some large areas of parks are divided into sections and you choose your preferred hunting area when applying to the ballot and if you are lucky you will get your pick. If you miss out you have the choice of another spot or you can hand in your ticket and get your first choice next season.

Because our game animals are feral the majority of the US system is hard to apply here without having some glaring anomalies. The closed season on fallow is one such case. Ordinary hunters (who all now have to pay for a licence to hunt a feral species) are not allowed to hunt fallow anywhere during the closed season, but farm and forest managers are allowed to shoot them with no restrictions at all. Same goes for pro (meat trade) shooters, who can shoot them where, when and how they like as long as they have permission from the land managers.
They are allowed to do this because Fallow are a pest and are breeding very successfully. The placing of a closed season on the deer that only applies to one section of the public interested in the deer, while letting other groups shoot them at will, is just one example of the mismanagement of our game animals and your sport.

The stupid contradictions in our system is shown up by the treatment of Hog Deer as a species.
In Victoria they have a ballot for the hunting of them and they are heavily monitored and managed. In NSW there is a closed season placed on them by the Game Council (preventing you and I from hunting them), and yet NSWNPWS have recently declared a total success their Hog Deer eradication program after culling off the only Hog Deer herd in NSW.

Animal management is still in the dark ages here in Australia.

[Piggy]

jindy with the hog deer you go into a ballot to hunt the blond bay area but on private property you con hunt them in the dedicated hunting season but must purchash some tags and tag the animal when shot and report such at the checking stations

[macka]

The sporting shooters go through the parks around here shooting goats sometimes..

Macka

[jindydiver]

jindy with the hog deer you go into a ballot to hunt the blond bay area but on private property you con hunt them in the dedicated hunting season but must purchash some tags and tag the animal when shot and report such at the checking stations

Thanks Piggy, I didn't realise there were any hog deer found on private land in Victoria.

The sporting shooters go through the parks around here shooting goats sometimes..

That is the SSAA hunting and conservation branch. They work with SA parks to cull goats and they are also the people that have negotiated the entry of shooters into Victorian alpine parks for the same thing.

[Glenn]

I brought this up with ABA some months ago and I was told that they would look into it and if other shooting organizations are putting submissions in to hunt the National parks then they would also.
I would have thought that they should have been doing this all along, Christ Almighty the ABA has only been around since 1975, that's 30 years and nothing has been done so far, do you think we should give them some more time.
I found out that it does not have to be a reconised Association but any group of people can put in a submission even a group on a web site.
What we need is some facts and figures such as how much does bowhunting contribute to the economy in Victoria for instance where bowhunters can hunt National Parks. Potentially how many hunters would travel from interstate to hunt the National Parks. Point out how the USA model works.
How effective are bowhunters at controlling feral game and how safe will bowhunting be. I know that there would be plenty of racords kept over the years of how much game was taken by members in Associations and there are even average kill distances for the different game animals, bows are a close range weapon, a big plus in our favour I would think.
Was hoping to put up an initial porposal for ideas from all members. I wouldn't like to see Operators take over the hunting in National Parks myself as I feel that this land belongs to the people and I would be nice to see people gain access to hunting country that can't normally...Glenn...

[Barry]

As I mentioned I have started putting together a submission. For the next 1-2 months however I will have very little time to work on it.

But following that I would like to have some input from forum members. Jindy and TB I would value your input and assistance.

One thing I would like is an example of a submission put to any government department. Sometimes the hardest part of getting these things started is getting the frame work right.

So if anyone knows of or can get me a copy or example submission that would be a great help.

Good topic guys!

[macka]

My cousin told me that the sporting shooters came and asked if they could cull the deer on his property and he was expecting them to actually cull them but they only shot like 2 deer and both stags so i cant see why bow hunters couldnÌt be allowed to do this.

Macka