string material

I have been testing diferent materials on some bows with very good performance increases.Typicaly bows with 16-18 of FF are common but when I switch them to 10 or 12 strands of DF97 or 8125 it is like getting a new bow.
One bow was chronographed at 181 FPS 28" draw, 412 gr arrow with 16 strands of FF.When I switched to 10 strands of DF 97 it went to 185 FPS with a 504 gr arrow at 27" draw .It also now shoots a 404 gr arow at 196 at 27" draw now .
I don't have the original arrows that I used {412 gr } so that is why the weight diferences.

The key is to utilize the strings capability and make the serving sized to fit the nock.We don't ned 16 strands of the new materials to get adequate strength.Padded loops are a good way to protect the tips if you are concerned about the small diameter.

The diferences with dacron are even greater.

[pete w]

The computer did not register me when I made this post about string material.I am the guest LOL

[Glenn]

That's intresting Pete, I like 10 to 12 strands with 450 plus and the 8125 strings, I have a preferance for the 8125 these days but I was thinking of trying the Dyna Flight 97. I don't like the feel of dacron, there is too much stretch with dacron for me. Very often I will double serve the nock area to build the string up for a better fit for the arrow nock. It's amazing how much difference there is to how a bow shoots when you reduce the weight of the string...Glenn...

[woody]

I just use plain old dacron, the older Bear's I am shooting aren't made for using the more modern string materials, and If I was chasing foot per second performance, I would be silly to be using a recurve, to start with :D

I make 14 strand flemish splice strings and they look nice. My main concern with a string is that it's brace height is right for the bow and it has a good set of " catwhiskers" silencers, so it shoots with minimum noise.

I use a cut section of occ'y straps, tied on with serving thread to make my own "catwhisker" style silencers.

If you cut a 2" section of occ'y strap, skin the outer fibre braid off it, tie it's rubber strands on to your string and then trim it neat with scissors, they do an excellent of queiting string vibration noise.

I suppose I could just buy catwhisker silencers from the shops, but I get a kick out of building my own archery gear, and seeing it turn out nice :D

[ed]

So given that less means more in this case I wonder if there is any way to work out the number of strands for bow weights - with each material?

I will soon have to start making my own strings as the ones from the shop seem to vary by up to an inch in length!

[Glenn]

You can shoot any string material you like on any bow. I have been shooting Fast Flight, 450 plus and 8125 on selfbows for years and I have never had a bow break from the string, but if a string is not made correctly then you will get a broken bow out of it. If you build up the loops on flemish strings then you will never have a problem. Years ago everybody used endless strings which had more strands in the string loops to start with and also the string loops were served on them as well which built the loops up and gave the tips more protection but when flemish strings became the fad there was a lot less string material there to protect the tips and with the introduction of fast flight which were much thinner than dacron and placed more pressure on the tips if the string loops were not built up with extra strands.
As a bowyer I feel that dacron is very hard on bows and I never recomend dacron to be used on my bows...Glenn...

[NRALIFE]

As a bowyer I feel that dacron is very hard on bows and I never recomend dacron to be used on my bows...Glenn...

Glen what is the reason for this I thought the dacron was the easiest on the bow due to the stretch it has???

[Glenn]

I always get plenty of looks when ever I say that. I saw a slow motion movie of a bow being shot with a dacrom string and it was scary to see how much the limbs vibrated after the shot, I can't see how anybody could think that that is good for a bow. I just feel that I would rather have my bow coming to a stop as soon as possible and transferring that energy into the arrow insted of wasting it leaving it in the limbs and making the limbs work over time long after the arrow is gone.
Like I say I have shot nonstretch bow strings on selfbows for over ten years never had one break from the string yet. It's the diameter of the string at the tips that breaks the bow and nothing to do with string material.
Non stretch bow strings were used by the English bowmen on the battle fields of Agincourt and Crecy(spelling) the strings they used were made out of linen and they were nonstretch as well. I have made hundreds of selfbows and sold plenty and have always sent them off with fast flight strings and never had a problem from the strings.
If the string material was strong enough you could shoot a one strand string on a bow as long as the loops were built up enough.
I have an old Kodiak Hunter here I have been using for thirty years and over ten years ago I changed to a fast flight string and the bow is still shooting and there has been several dry fires with the fast flight on this bow with no damage at all, but the loops are built up correctly...Glenn...

[woody]

Hmmm..... I think I'll stay with Dacron :D

[woody]

Coach,
I shoot Bear take downs, timber and magnesium riser versions, and I have damaged risers, and limbs, using fast flight strings.

Most people that use these old bows dont recomend fast flight strings or similar modern no stretch string materials on them.

I have a set of limbs, with the string nocks built with the reinforced nocks for fast flight string, but I will not run anything on it except dacron, to look after my bow.

Glen is probably right in asserting that there is less residual vibration and a bigger percentage of energy transfers to the arrow, but its the sudden snap to a dead stop when the string runs out of power stroke that concerns me. :D

[woody]

Coach,
I also dont see a big problem with bow vibration when a sensible arrow weight of 9/10 grains per pound of draw weight and cat whisker string silencers are used, works for me any way :D

[Glenn]

Yes Coach the limbs do vibrate a lot more depending on string material used, but I will stick to what I said that the string material will not break a bow only an incorrect made string for the bow. Just imagine the stresses on a bow limb that wants to keep going foward when the shot is made and then the the string halts this foward momentum then the limbs will come back and go foward again creating vibration in the limb, very stressful on the limband glue lines, you would imagine that this would fatigue the bow a lot quicker than a bow shot using a nonstretch string. The other advantages are is that you will get the same speed with a heavier arrow creating more momentum, better for hunting.
Sorry Woody I'm not having a go at you mate as I was convince of all of those things as well until I started building bows myself and found out just how many old wives tales there are about bow building and design. I have old bows I built in 1993 that have nothing more than wooden tip overlays and one has nothing at all and have always shot fast flight strings never dacron and there has never been any sign of damage to the tips but I do take great care with the string loops when making a flemish string.
I wrote to bowyer Bill Matlock(one of the best in the USA) in the early 90's and he wrote back telling me that hed a longbow that he had set up in his workshop that had been dry fired over 144 times with a fast flight string and was still shooting. There is no way I would be game to do that with my bows but it just goes to show you...Glenn...

[woody]

Glen,
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one :D

[NRALIFE]

I changed to a fast flight string and the bow is still shooting and there has been several dry fires with the fast flight on this bow with no damage at all, but the loops are built up correctly...Glenn...

Glen can you explain the correct way to build the loop? and / or post a picture?
Do you server the loop like you would on an endless loop with a thicker server material?

I am very interested.
I also make Flemish string do you think I should be serving the loop before I finish the loop into the string?

You got me thinking now..

Thank for the information
Larry

[Glenn]

Larry I don't serve the loop but I do cut extra 10 to 12 short strands about 12 inches long and add them into the loops. regardless of what string material I am using I always make these shorter strands out of dacron because they are thicker.
I never make a three lay flemish string with nonstretch material I only ever do two strings as they are a bit thicker in the loops as well, I think that the three lay string loops end up too thin for nonstretch material but work well for dacron.
So if I'm making a 12 strand two lay string I just stagger the ends of the short strands and add them to the the bundles so when it is finished the loops have 22 to 24 strands.
Larry if you want I can post a picture...Glenn...

[NRALIFE]

Glen a picture would be good. I think I understand but seeing is always good..

Thanks for taking the time..

Larry