Bowhunting Etiquette -

[Maltese Falcon]

Hi all,
The reason for this thread is because of a PM I received earlier in the week. The sender will remain nameless.
I don't mind anyone contacting me and asking for help & advice, in fact I do help a lot of young guys with their bow hunting queries. But when I get this PM that starts off like this below, it puts me off for a start.

heya MF wats your real name buy the way

and what area do you live in........


He did not introduce himself and is quite blunt.

Bow hunting etiquette has certain rules and I live by them, some are:
• Get out and find your own properties to hunt on.
• If you go on another person’s property as a guest you do not try to get permission to hunt on that place without that person’s knowledge.
• While hunting on that place you abide by all of the rules set by the owner.
• Look after the property owners, when I go hunting I always take them alcohol or fish or anything that they need. That is why I have being going on certain places now and keep on getting reinvited for over 25 years now because I ‘DO THE RIGHT THING’.


I'm looking desperately for a property to hunt on as I don't have my own and the propertys that i used to hunt on I now can't so I was wonderring if a little get together on a property would be possible or just a propertry that has good game on it i.e. pigs, goats what ever, that I can maybe talk to an owner about to see if I can possibly get permission to hunt on with one mate in the Murrurundi area, if possible



I just wonder why this person cannot hunt on the properties that he used to, I will PM him back and give him some areas to try and techniques and approach with the property owners.

I may be too harsh (and please tell me if I am) with my reaction to this PM but I hope this serves as encouragement for anyone that is starting out in bow hunting not as a personal attack on the sender.

As with a lot of other contributors to this forum, we the more experienced (older) members are more than happy to help some of the less experienced members.

Thanks for your patience.

MF

[XTfreak]

I think you did right. Maybe all the person needed was a little guidence as we all do from time to time.
I also think its fun trying to help the new people that are getting into bowhunting\archery where and when I can. And they are not all necessarily young hey?
Bill

[Sparra]

I am fairly new to bowhunting and down where I am the properties are not easy to come by.I have been lucky enough to snag a few and although not big in numbers of game they are great places to go to.With the advent of the game council if people are keen they can get there r-licence and a whole lot of new oppertunities are opened up.
I have been lucky enough to have been invited on a few hunts with people from the site but don't really feel comfortable taking them up unless I can reciprocate the offer and am working on that at the moment.
My advice to new combers...Do the ground work,ask everyone you know and source out leads..Join the Game council,get an r-licence and away you go....
Sparra....

[Maltese Falcon]

Hi Sparra,

Take up those hunts mate! Most hunters don't want reciprocation just don't go back without their permission.

MF

[Kimall]

I think you did the right thing mate.We used to be able to get a little book for about 25 bucks that had a heap of properties names and contact numbers in it and you paid 35 a night to hunt on these places.It was for guns also so some were pretty shot out and you had to go through a few to find one with decent game numbers.I always liked doing this as it is great exploring new properties but most guys I used to ask if they wanted to go would say "You go and see and if its any good I will come next time"
Stuff that they never got another invite.I also found this with the flyfishing club I was in, people just dont want to put in a bit of work a lot of the time.
It is very hard to get properties and I think it is rude to ask, you should wait to be asked to go with someone to their property.
Cheers KIM

[FentonW]

Falcon,
What you did is the right thing. The bowhunting etiquette exists and will be the unwritten rule forever. Properties are hard to come by, it doesn't matter where you are situated there are idiots that spoil it for the guys that do it for the love of it. I think Sparra has got the right idea, join the Game Council and get your licence at least until you get a property for yourself.
Cheers, Fenton.

[Dave]

MF,

I do believe that you have done the right thing, I am very protective of any areas that I am able to access and I have in the past taken groceries etc for the property owners (especially if they live over 100km from town). We had a thread similar to this some time ago about approaching people and the different experiences people encountered.

In defence of your pm author, I do honestly believe that the youth of today EXPECT things for nothing. He most probably will not understand what all the fuss is about as this is how his generation does things. There is no social structure in their eyes, "if you can have it I can to...NOW" They don't want to understand that we had to work hard over the years to get where we are and have the things we have. They believe they are equal to us NOW and should get all of this handed to them on a silver platter NOW.

This is not an opinion, but an observation of how our society has crumbled and decayed over the last 20 years...There is no respect any more...

Dave.

[jindydiver]

I am fairly new to bowhunting and down where I am the properties are not easy to come by.I have been lucky enough to snag a few and although not big in numbers of game they are great places to go to. With the advent of the game council if people are keen they can get there r-licence and a whole lot of new opportunities are opened up.
I have been lucky enough to have been invited on a few hunts with people from the site but don't really feel comfortable taking them up unless I can reciprocate the offer and am working on that at the moment.
My advice to new combers...Do the ground work, ask everyone you know and source out leads.. Join the Game council, get an r-licence and away you go....
Sparra....

:lol: :lol:
I am sure we can find you some jobs for you to do to ease your conscience :lol: :lol:

MF
You are right to not want to help the sender of that PM (or any other like PM) till they understand some ground rules first.

I was bitten on the arse by someone I trusted over 25 years ago now, and then to drive the lesson home about 15 years ago, so I don't introduce hunters to property owners any more unless I am sure that problems can be avoided. Mostly the only blokes I take out already have places of their own they can access, this means that I know they already have an understanding of the rules and also understand the commitment that I am making for them when I invite them along. They already understand what it would be like for them to have a property owners faith in them destroyed by someone they had trusted to take hunting going back and poaching, and so are way less likely to do something like that themselves.

The sender of that PM wouldn’t get anything from me, this sentence is a deal killer
that I can maybe talk to an owner about to see if I can possibly get permission to hunt on with one mate in the Murrurundi area, if possible

He is not only asking that you trust him (someone you haven’t met in person yet) but also trust someone else who is anonymous. :roll:

[bear]

MF,
I think you did the right thing mate, you can't help for being suspicious of the underlying reasons for the anonymous PMer not having access to those properties anymore and be a little peeved at the way he approached you :? I have had a few people do the wrong thing by me and I don't go with or invite them to hunt anymore. I recently been goin with a few interstate blokes who have turned out to be great blokes to hunt with but were also pretty straight forward at the start which made me stand off a bit and they have actually got access to properties in my own back yard before me :cry: but he invites me along whenever he's in town :D I would probaly still give em a chance BY THEMSELVES but be cautious to where you take em until you get to know them properly :wink:

BEAR

[rory]

MF, you did the right thing!

I have had months of crap now from people not wanting 'killers' or any sort of hunting done on their properties. I have been abused, ignored, you name it, and yet I have managed to get hunting.

I have met a couple of people who have got to know me, and without ANY pushyness or whatever I have had the great fortune of being able to hunt with them, on their properties. I have become good friends with these guys and the trust is 100% mutual.

When I was not only starting off in looking for game/getting properites, but also really getting my bowhunting in order I had the great fortune of getting help and taken out by a couple of guys I met through the forums. Again, these guys are now good friends and I'll take them to my spots down the track I'm sure :D

It's amazing what happens when you simply get to know people :D

[ricochet]

MF,

I do believe that you have done the right thing, I am very protective of any areas that I am able to access and I have in the past taken groceries etc for the property owners (especially if they live over 100km from town). We had a thread similar to this some time ago about approaching people and the different experiences people encountered.

In defence of your pm author, I do honestly believe that the youth of today EXPECT things for nothing. He most probably will not understand what all the fuss is about as this is how his generation does things. There is no social structure in their eyes, "if you can have it I can to...NOW" They don't want to understand that we had to work hard over the years to get where we are and have the things we have. They believe they are equal to us NOW and should get all of this handed to them on a silver platter NOW.

This is not an opinion, but an observation of how our society has crumbled and decayed over the last 20 years...There is no respect any more...

Dave.



Dave- i feel you a fairly spot on with your views here, i think it is a reflection on our society as a whole, but i have had some contact( be it on chat and PM,) with a yound fella on this site, I have trouble sometimes understanding what the heck he is writing about :lol: , his short hand is unbelieveable, this is the young generation :D , but i have found this young fella to be very keen and loves to fish a hunt, I have mentioned to him not to let on about the hunting areas he has found to every one and sundry, as us older fellas know that others will/have shafted us before, so hopefully we can offer assistance to these younger ones, maybe instill a little patience into them, and for them not to expect every thing at once :D , there are many many members here that have and will offer help to the younger ones, hopefully in time this younger generation will learn some humility and respect from these members. :)


Rick

[adam]

Hi MF

There is a few guide lines we should abide by, like the ones you have pointed out. But from experience there are other hunters out there that do over look these things. More experienced guys like a lot of us here are common with the rules some are not.

I believe Bowhunting downunder will be listing what they believe are some general guidelines.

Adam

[HOOD]

MF your post is spot on and justified.

It took me nearly 2yrs of looking for a property before I gained access to my first.
I to have had a newbie bug me many times to take them out but I was not confident in their attitude and shooting abilities, so have held off.

I have also had a couple of open invites from others which I'm still to take them up on.

Take teh time to get to know others and show them teh respect and "what goes around, comes around"

But in saying that!
Like Jindy and also Adam you can get kicked in the gut by people you thought you knew and could trust.

It takes time and effort to build up trust with fellow bow hunters as well as property owners.
So like a dog over a bone we guard our hunting properties like they are our last and only property.

Just my 2c

[hugearm]

im a junior (15) and would never be so rude as to ask out right if some one could take me hunting or if they new a property they could hunt i would wait and put in the time and get to no the person then get invited but maybe thats me

thanks michael

[benhohnke]

I think a very important guide line if you take someone hunting on one of your propertys is that they respect your decisions you make eg. stay here while i stalk these goats. and ten minuetes later the are stalking in from another angle :x And another example is if they assume they can drop in any time for a hunt. I may be wrong but I think i have a fair indication on who this anonymos pmer is and will try and have a quiet word with him. And if it is who i think it is i thought they may have known better. Also this one worked for me . I was walking along the road for what was going to be a 3km walk to a fishing spot with rod in hand When a property owner who i had never met before jumped out of his tractor and asked where i was going i was very polite talked to him and he said not to walk that far and go fishing on his place. After some fishing trips there i gradually bought up that i was a bowhunter and he sent me straight up the back of his place for a hunt ever since i always take time to give him a christmas card and drop in and have a yarn. So just get to know people before you just burst out straight up and ask to go hunting

[Dave]

i always take time to give him a christmas card and drop in and have a yarn.

Well done Ben,

It is sometimes the very small things that mean so much. It does not take any real effort to do these things but you show a genuine willingness to give and not only take.

[AdamK]

MF,
How you doin.
PM sent.

[ed]

don't be too harsh on the kid. We have all made some doosies of mistakes in our times, some of it when we were kids too! Worst ones are when we are long past being kids but no bloody smarter for some reason :)

[Puk]

We might have all made mistakes, but we needed someone to tell us what the right thing was to do, yeh?
We have to be easy on them, but not put them off bowhunting. It is just that, like it or not, every one of us does not only represent ourselves, but we are ambassadors for bowhunting every time we deal with property owners, or even flip someone the bird while wearing a TBGA sticker on our car. :shock: You can imagine them thinking "well if that's what a bowhunter is like they can all get stuffed."

The best property that i can get onto is a long way away, i rang the manager and spoke to him, and when we arrived we sat and had a few beers and talked for about 2 hours. You might think this is time wasted (not hunting), but it was the basis of a friendship that means we still communicate by phone every few weeks, and he asks for my help on some matters.

I think if you only contact someone when you want to go hunting, they will start to feel a bit "used" after a while. So well done Ben for your effort with the property owner you described. We were trying to get the owner to open up this property for others, but he isn't interested. I am allowed back whenever i want, though.

As to the first line of that original PM, i want to know what language it is in? I hate the SMS bred shorthand, but that's just me.

Puk

[Maltese Falcon]

Hi Ed,

I don't think we were too harsh, as stated previously he has remained unnamed.

I was just using the PM as an example to all how NOT to ask to go on a hunt with someone.

I remember my youth Ed I never ever presumed on someone and I never approached anyone in this manner.

MF

[ed]

hey I am not defending the kid, just saying that not all education starts with a slap upside the head. You may not think you did that, but words get all mixed up on forums, different emphasis etc, and remember we are talking about a kid that speaks some kind of weird pidgeon-english anyway :)

I am just saying that I would not like to see such a keen kid get turned off the sport because of a mistake. That is not to say I know for sure he will be a good representative of the sport either, just kids need a chance to grow up too.
I deal with kids all the time, teach them martial arts, and I have to say I have heard worse things and much dummer things out of kids than this, and as I hinted at, often from adult "kids" too.

I think you have done the right thing in highlighting to the kid that this sort of request is beyond being merely presumptuous and he needs to have a good think before he asks another hunter about where they hunt again. A good rule of thumb is, not invited means not invited - yet, so be nice and you might get a chance one day. Asking is pushy and may stop you ever getting invited.

[Maltese Falcon]

Hi Ed,

Your reply was worded well and I take your point.

I need to get out for a hunt, I think I'm getting a bit twitchy!!

MF

[sparra_gump]

MF,

I do believe that you have done the right thing, I am very protective of any areas that I am able to access and I have in the past taken groceries etc for the property owners (especially if they live over 100km from town). We had a thread similar to this some time ago about approaching people and the different experiences people encountered.

In defence of your pm author, I do honestly believe that the youth of today EXPECT things for nothing. He most probably will not understand what all the fuss is about as this is how his generation does things. There is no social structure in their eyes, "if you can have it I can to...NOW" They don't want to understand that we had to work hard over the years to get where we are and have the things we have. They believe they are equal to us NOW and should get all of this handed to them on a silver platter NOW.

This is not an opinion, but an observation of how our society has crumbled and decayed over the last 20 years...There is no respect any more...

Dave.


Sorry i don't agree with this, i am only 19 myself and to well know there is alot of truth behind "give a little recieve a little", i've started shooting with a bow for 3-4 weeks now and because of the reputation my family name has and because i have been an active member of the community i have already been approached with the, "Hey i have heard that you have started bowhunting..........come see me later in the week to organise a shoot or two".

I believe it is the values people have that govern their attitudes, i think people who don't know this need to know that they would appreciate a property all the more if they worked for it.

[Luke]

Sorry S.G...I disagree with your disagreeance...

The very reasons stated in the post you've quoted are some of the reasons why I have opted to teach in the primary sector now, instead of high school.

This is just my opinion but as someone who comes in contact with hundreds (up to 500) different students per week.

Luke

[Puk]

I found being a minister gets me permission to hunt on a lot of properties. For some reason they think they can trust me.... :wink:

And it's not something for nothing, either. 2 languages and 6 years of training later, i don't mind using it to my advantage at all! :wink:

Puk

[sparra_gump]

Fair enough Luke my point is only not to lose faith there are some good ones out there, guess i might be one of the minority.

[Luke]

You're right mate, there are some fantastic kids in our schools. It is however a very grim picture in the majority of cases. Some may call me a cynic but with the volume of contact I've had with adoloescent kids I feel I've had a pretty good insight...

I just hope that we can teach and guide the exceptions to this majority so they can lead well those that will definately need it in the future.

Luke

[bobzila]

I just hope that we can teach and guide the exceptions to this majority so they can lead well those that will definately need it in the future.

Luke

luke its not guidence these kids need its respect i have always been a very trubled kid and got in lots of truble at school and i am worse now then i was back then but i have respect for my fellow man (somtimes) and i respect my country and way of life so i no if i have to work to get somthing i take care of it but if it gets handed to me i end up braking it in like 5 minits so if we just hand out propertys to these people they may end up giving bowhunters a bad rep and stop property owner from leting other hunters hunt on there land

if this is off topic or doesnt make cents pleaze romove the post

[Puk]

No Bob,
I reckon it makes quite a bit of sense.

Something worth doing or getting is something worth working for.

Good on you mate,
Puk

[jpbon]

Something worth doing or getting is something worth working for.

Good on you mate,
Puk

You've hit the nail on the head there Puk.

[Luke]

What I meant by that bit you quoted Bob, is that I hope we can guide those good kids that are out there who have things like respect, manners, courtesy, persistence, morals, ethics, honesty, etc etc... so that they can guide those that don't. ESPECIALLY when it is that generation's turn to be the ones running the country because all of us of generations older are either too old to do it or dead :shock:

8)

[benhohnke]

I hope we can guide those good kids that are out there who have things like respect, manners, courtesy, persistence, morals, ethics, honesty, etc etc... so that they can guide those that don't.

8)
I spend alot of time neally all my weekends teaching kids who don't have alot of qualitys like you stated and teaching them to hunt i have seen improvements but not many i think they just stress me out and drive me crackers. but if no one teaches them they will never change

[Sparra]

Its obvious when reading some of the posts in this thread and posts in general that not much thought goes into spelling either...Maybe we need to start at the very beginning and get back to basics...reading,writing and learning respect.....
Sparra...

[jindydiver]

If you jump in your car and go door knocking, or you are referred to a landowner who is amicable to hunters then you have every right to ask for some hunting on their land. Other people who have permission to hunt there are relying on the farmer to look after their interests for them and unless they have some financial interest in what goes on at that farm then who the farmer lets on is none of their business.

This is not the same as being taken to a property by another hunter so you can enjoy a day out and then going back afterwards and asking for permission to hunt on your own. That is an abuse of the trust the other hunter showed in you by taking him to that farm in the first place.

[sparra_gump]

Thanks, jindy