Longbow strings

[NormGunston]

I've done a search on this site regarding which string material best suits laminated longbows of the Cartel, Samick, etc. varieties. Please check whether my understanding of the information is correct:
* If the limb nocks have phenolic overlays, any string material may be used.
* A flemish twist string is preferable to an endless loop due to its quieter characteristics.
* 10 - 12 strands of DynaFlite97 will be faster than 16 - 18 strands of Fastflite.
* Building up the strings loops is important to reduce stress on the limb tips.
* There may or may not be any advantage in using a Fastflite or DF97 rather than Dacron.
* Changing string material may be useful in tuning a longbow - arrow combination for optimum results.
* Custom strings are generally made better than production strings.
QUESTIONS: Is the selection of string material for longbows any different from recurves? Are there any more advantages/disadvantages of the various materials for longbows? Which string material is the quietest AND fastest? Who makes reliable custom flemish strings in Australia?
Thanks for any help. Ant.

[Glenn]

Ant there a lot of misconceptions and misinformation about strings. I have been using fastflite strings on selfbows for years with no tip overlays at all, straight on the bare timber with no ware an tare at all, I do however add extra layers of dacron to the string loops because the dacron is softer than the fastflite. Tip overlays are not necessary if the strings are made properly, a lot of bows are damaged due to bad string construction. I only ever use flemish strings as I don't like the endless string because they are too thin in the string loops, just asking for trouble.
A lot of low stretch strings have far too many strands in the strings which will slow the bow down to the point that you might just as well use dacron.
Another thing that slows a bow down are the cat whisker silencers, they are too heavy and you see a lot of them in the wrong place, they should be placed up near the tips and not down towards the centre of the limbs, they don't do much down there except add the string vibration.
Alow stretch string will never damage a bow and low stretch strings have been used for centuaries, the Irish Linen that was used for the Medevil longbows was a low stretch string material...Glenn...

[XTfreak]

Norm,
QUESTION: Did you finally get the new longbow?
Bill

[NormGunston]

Glenn- thanks that clears a few things up. Where then, is the best place to get a not-too-many strands, Dyna/Fastflite flemish string with Dacron in the loops??
Bill- still waitin'!! Slowest mail delivery yet! :evil:

[pete w]

There are some real gains to be had with modern materials over Dacron. If the bow is rated for modern material it will outperform Dacron if it is built properly.
Often we see 16 to 18 strands of DF97/8125 in a string. At 125-130# per strand it can tow a truck. 10 strands of these is lots of strength.1250/1300# per string.


Dacron at 45-50 #/strand and a 16 typical strand string is only 800#'s.
With the small count strings I always use padded loops. It is just extra insurance for the tip. makes it quieter, and adds cushion to the string itself.

Actual "Fast Flight" is old tec material today. DF97 and 8125 are far better performers. Again this is dependent on the string being built to take advantage of its properties and not over built.

Many like Glen use modern type strings on bows without worry, but I prefer to use caution if the bowyer says not to use these materials. I would not buy a bow that was not capable of using Fast flight type materials. That would tell me the bowyer is not confident in his limb.

I prefer to use Flemish twist for the same reason as Glen and also because they look much better. There is also more adjustment available in them.

If your string maker is using DF 97/ 8125 and not stretching with enough weight he is not building it right. The new material takes about 200# prestretch before serving. Dacron is usualy only 50#.
Also you will want a larger size serving with thin strings. I use 030 serving over 10 strands of DF97 and 8125.This is a perfect nock fit for Carbon arrow nocks.

I did a lot of testing of strings in the review for Rod Jenkins "Great Strings" and the comparisons of several materials are in the "Great string " review.
Usual performance pickup has been around 10FPS with DF97over fast Flight. Dacron is even more of a diference..
This is with properly made strings that have not been over made with to many strands.

like Glen said about silencers too, where they are makes a big diference. Also what they are made from. I only use beaver balls. They are about 4FPS faster than the rubber silencers, because they weigh half as much.
They look better too!!

Custom strings should be better if the string maker does it right!! If DF97 or 8125 is not faster than Dacron or fast flight the string is not made right.
8125 is a bit faster than DF97 but you will need a chrono to tell .

That review on great strings is on my site at www.peteward.com

Hope this helps a bit.

Pete

[ed]

I am curious about the prestretch you talk about Pete.
I like to make my own strings (of dacron until I run out of it), but have never prestretched a string. I have found them to stretch so little that a few more twists put into it is enough top maintain the brace height.

[NormGunston]

Ed, I've only ever made endless loop strings for a target recurve. That was when we had to stock up on home-grown Kevlar strings which broke after a thousand or so shots (usually at one of the loops). I remember being told that having the maximum amount of tension during manufacture will mean less "settling in" time, stronger loops and better serving.
Very informative post, pete w, thanks. In the future I'm keen to learn how to make a flemish string. There are plans for a jig on Tradgang.com, but I can't find any instructions. Pete's info is interesting, isn't it? The 'ropish' Dacron string on the Cartel longbow I have is far from the light 10 strand DF97 he speaks of. The generic DF97 flemish strings available from 3riversarchery come standard at 16 strands.

[Glenn]

Ed prestretching is easy to do, when the string is made I will twist the string up a bit more than what it needs to and then I place one loop onto a secure fixture on my bench and then with a handle of some kind through the other end I pull the string as hard as I can to stretch the string and set the strands together...Glenn...

[pete w]

Some of the string makers I know stretch the strings and hold them stretched while serving them. Their serving never comes loose!

[Al Kidner]

I placed a good hook under the floor joists of my home and hung the string from that with a heavy tool box hanging from the end.

I then leave it for a number of days cumming back to rub it with a small bit of leather off cut. The friction from rubbing heats up the string and gets the wax into it as well as streaching it.

I always prestreach all my strings. Your serving stays on better. Almost to the end of the life of the string most times.

al

[perry]

As a footnote to the sound advice given by Glenn and the others I believe you will have no trouble using the modern synthetic string materials despite any manufactures warnings provided you cushion the string loops adequetly with dacron b50 .
I have used linen for bowstrings and found it posseses the same no stretch qualitys as the modern synthetics and contributes to less handshock and greater velocity as they do over dacron .As it has a larger strand diameter it doesn't cut into limb tips but its good policy to add extra strands to all flemish twist string loops

[pete w]

Good comparison Perry.
As for the material for padding I don't think it matters at all as oit only is a cushion. Many use dacron because they have it and it is cheap, but if all you have is the good stuff LOL Then it will do the same job.

What did they blame broken bows on before the Fast flight and now the newer materials??

[Paul R]

What did they blame broken bows on before the Fast flight and now the newer materials??
:lol:
User error :lol:

It's an interesting question though Pete, maybe some of the older archers among us can remember what reasons were given back then, it's really before my time. :lol:

Seriously though, I seem to recall 15/20 years ago, hearing about bow limbs failing/delaminating more often, especially recurves, now I don't hear about it happening much at all.
Could it be because most bowyers and archers these days use modern string material which causes less vibration in the limbs?

Or maybe it's a combination of a few things like;
Modern string material
Better glues
The wide spread sharing of information between bowyers leading to better techniques across the board
The education of archers; more arches using stringers and being careful when stringing bows and the use of appropriately weighted arrows.

Or maybe it's because the majority of archers use compounds now.

Or maybe I'm just dreamin and there's just as many bows getting delaminated now as there was in the past. :lol:

I believe one thing is for certain though and that is; in recent years the internet has definitely facilitated in the education of users and the sharing of information between bowyers, which is a good thing for all.

[pete w]

Paul:
I think you covered it quite well.
Today when I see a bow that the bowyer says dacron only it makes me ask" What is wrong with your limd design that it will not take the new material?
Why are your tips not reinforced to use this?
.
For a bowyer today to build a dacron only bow he is limiting his customer base by about 80% I would guess. It is only natural to think the limb tip is weak if he will not warranty it with DF etc.

Although the net is a great place to learn, the bad side is the "bad advice passed out over the net"
All to ofter some terrible advice is given. In particular about arrow choices when it comes to Carbon.

material wise and the sort I am sure we have better materials today, and glues are far superior to what they were 40 years ago.
You hit it right with the stringer issue too. Fools pay a grand for a bow and are to cheap to get a 10 dollar stringer.

Sites like this with a resident Bowyer like our friend Glenn are giving the novice a lot of information that we had to learn the hard way.
Thanks for having this place for us to to share out ideas.
Some day I hope to visit down Under, Bow in hand of course.

Pete

[Paul R]

Sites like this with a resident Bowyer like our friend Glenn are giving the novice a lot of information that we had to learn the hard way.
Most definately.
It's fantastic getting advice from people like Glenn who have a huge amount of first hand knowledge and experience. It certainly helps when it comes to sorting through the huge amount of misinformation out there.
It's amazing how one persons opinion, which hasn't been backed up by testing and results, can quickly become fact, simply by being repeated by others on the internet. :?
That's why those independent reviews of yours Pete are so valuable to us archers and bowhunters. :D

I'm sure a lot of blokes down here could help you out with some hunting whenever you manage visit, just let us know. :D

[ed]

I have most times served the string loops on a flemish string. The Internature bows have a string nock that does not angle much down the bow on the belly side and so there is a point of wear there. I found similar but not as bad with the woomera's. Don't think this softens the contact but it does thicken the string even more.

Also when reading the bits here about serving coming loose etc, I must say that it has never happened to me even though I have only prestretched one string (the one I made after the advice on this thread). I always serve the string while it is on the braced bow using a serving tool and it has been fine.

[Git-r-done]

Hey guys...check this out...

Hi Dennis
Today I was able to get the bows out and try the new stings. I first ran the old strings and bows through the chronometer . There were two arrows used both carbon one was 495 grains the other 565 grains . The increase in speed was amazing .the best bow going from 191 fps to 204 fps .The bow with the least change was a ....... that went from 181 fps to 186 fps . A .....******** longbow jumped from 182 fps-191 fps. The best thing was how quiet the bows became , without exception every bow shot faster but more importantly much quieter.
In my opinion these strings are the best I have ever shot much better than XXXXXXXXX . After the holidays I will be ordering more strings , as soon as you get any info on the string for the 68" longbow drop me a line. Once again great product all the best and have a great christmas
******
*****The names were changed to protect the innocent******

i just received this email from one of my customers regarding a DF97 padded loop string that I sell from Rod jenkins...I sell them

Check out the review on http://www.peteward.com/

Rod's strings are the best... I have them on all my personal bows!!