View Full Version : Instinctive shooting
ok so I decided to try it. I got sick of all the mental calculations and trying to judge/remember the gap/point of aim for different distances and just let the subconscious look after it all.
I got a question for those that have used this for years - I have much more variation for height as I sort of expected, and still seem to notice the line of the arrow under my eye, even when I am focusing on the target spot. How long did it take for you to get decent (20cm) groups out to 30 metres again?
Also with mental focus, I am pretty used to wanting to smack things (years of smacking people in martial arts) but I read on other boards about really wanting the spot and focussing on it. Seems to help me, but I wonder if you guys still need it.....
Reason I ask is my old man used to be able shoot (sniper for UK army) a can at 40m without really looking at it and without raising the gun to his face - any of you guys able to vary your technique and still hit the spot?
Mate I have just started shooting a long bow as well as shooting my compound which has sights and I have been shooting my LB while standing in the dark and shooting at a lit up target.This way I can not see any of the bow or the arrow and I am happy with the results I am getting.
I still find during the day if I try to hard I am tempted to start pointing the arrow instead of pointing your arm.This is prob all wrong but is working foe me.
Cheers KIM
thanks kimall, sounds like a good idea. I have been shooting in semi darkness already and target is in the shed under a light - avatar is second day instinctive at 10m, ok I would have done that at 20 with gap shooting but it is a start.
I haven't been thinking of pointing my arm at all, just looking at the target and picking a spot I want to hit.
BTW the best archer I have seen here in SA is a recurve using instinctive shooter and can load off seven arrows in 30 seconds into a target that size at 40m. Not a hunter, he is part of the SCA mob and has only ever shot targets or people in steel armour! (big rubber ends on the arrows and a bow weight limit) That is something I will have to try one day.
Mate I have just started shooting a long bow as well as shooting my compound which has sights and I have been shooting my LB while standing in the dark and shooting at a lit up target.T
Cheers KIM
Yep works wonders, been do'n it for many years, along with shooting from laying down, twisting the body around etc, anything that might represent a hunting situation :D
Yeah Coach, sure you heard me the first time, but were you listening carefully :) :?:
people in steel armour! (big rubber ends on the arrows and a bow weight limit) That is something I will have to try one day. Oh please let me be the shooter and you be in the armour :D :lol: :lol: :wink:
cuts both ways coach - ya can't shoot unless you are also in armour and can be shot at. Some are done in battle numbers of between 100 and 500 people, some archers others wooden-sword and shield, and yes they can smack you with the swords. Another comp they have is two archers in a shootout, knockout rounds two at a time until only one is left. To be allowed to enter either comp you have to get some armour and let the "veterans" load of a few shots at you to test it out! LOL mad as cut snakes but it sounds like a laugh.
anyway back to topic, If Axe recommends it and the ministry of silly walks shooting postures too then I will have to give that some effort too :)
humphrey
14-06-05, 06:56 PM
ive found that if your form is really good, and you just really concentrate on picking that spot and realease smoothly, 9/10 times you will hit it. i also find that if i look at the arrow while drawing to make sure it doesn't fall off the shelf, my shot tends to be poor.
I shoot instictive and find that I am shooting well, and as others have said when I think to much about aiming or looking at the arrow it all turns to poo.
I cop a bit of flak from others at the club because I don't take my time to AIM (point of aim or gap shooting) but hey it works for me and I hit the spot more times then not. I don't have a lot of cant in the bow but it is noticable so I don't have to much if any problem with the arrow falling of the shelf.
I put the bow up, pick the spot, draw back reach the anchor point and release in one smooth action.
Thats the way I do it, I found that it just came naturally for me to shoot this way.
Hood 8)
Also can someone just be born with the "instinct" or is it something that is learnt? And can some people just NEVER be able to do it ?
Bit like some people don't know when to shut up, got no instinct that there gonna get it! :lol:
For arguments sake lets call it instinct, "feel" "talent" or "second nature" might be better words?
I believe we're all born with animal instincts, self preservation and such,
but as with much of our being, that which is a highly developed instinct in one person for a particular area may not have the same level of developement in another 8)
One would think that a child instinctively would not touch a hot fireplace, some do, some don't, for those that don't is it instinct? Generally the ones that do get burned, next time they don't touch it, is that now instinct or lesson learnt :?:
Therefore, IMHO, some people can instinctively hit the target, judge distance, with no teaching apart from the technical aspects, whilst others don't have the same "feel" for it and need to be taught :)
So my answer.........both :roll:
outback preditor
15-06-05, 11:50 AM
axe your a funny bloke, also you seem to have a brain..... and it works well.
ive never really thought about instinctive shooting, ive just done it. when i first started shooting my master said. "just look at the spot you want hit grasshopper". and thats was it.
fred asbells litriture is a good read. he axplains alot for those needing to get their fingers burnt. hehe.
pedro.
Howling Dog
15-06-05, 05:49 PM
A problem I have noticed with some people that were not consistent with their instinctive shooting were as follows, ie righthanded & dominant left eye & vise versa.
Those that don't understand point at something in the distance both eyes open, close left eye if your still pointing at it your right eye dominant, and to confirm this point again and close your right eye and if no longer pointing at it you should be shooting righthanded. if the opposite to above you should be shooting lefthanded. Hope I haven't confused the matter further.
i heard that the eye dominance issue is not a problem with instinctive - only the other "aiming" type methods. still not to sure about it tho :roll:
Howling Dog
16-06-05, 12:44 AM
Brian you may be right, my style was instinctive? out to thirty yards and gapped after that! :(
humphrey
16-06-05, 08:19 PM
in regards to the canting of the bow, i would think that it would be hard to always cant it at the same angle consistently, and this would mean poor shots? i do see people shoot this way often, and they seem to shoot ok, but im a straight up and down man. 8)
i know it opens up the site window for a better view of the target, but it just aint for me.
who heres a canter?
outback preditor
16-06-05, 11:19 PM
yeh mate i canter, just before i hiy top speed. :wink:
I'm a canter. Not a lot of cant but I cant none the less.
Hood 8)
i heard that the eye dominance issue is not a problem with instinctive - only the other "aiming" type methods. still not to sure about it tho :roll:
Think you might find that it's a major problem Brian :)
Im a CANTER a lot of the time on on my knees and the bow has to be canted for clearance anyway. Its just a part of instintive shooting for me.
i heard that the eye dominance issue is not a problem with instinctive - only the other "aiming" type methods. still not to sure about it tho :roll:
Think you might find that it's a major problem Brian :)
thats interesting Axe, can you give me some examples or explanation why? Purely from a skills learning theory perspective it shouldn't be an issue.
yeh i've always wondered about that and why/why not. what i've heard was that it doesnt matter so much with insticntive because you use both eyes to the same degree so it doesnt affect instinctive shooting - but then i've also wondered why you couldnt learn to shoot with the "wrong" side of eye dominance - tell us more axe because i'd like to hear your angle (a more informed thought) on this one.
thats interesting Axe, can you give me some examples or explanation why? Purely from a skills learning theory perspective it shouldn't be an issue.
Ed ,
As part of skills learning practicallity, to hit the target would surely be one of the major objectives, or at least understand as to why one isn't, to this end eye dominance is a critical factor.
Over the years it has been proven by people with much more knowledge than I, that, in all forms of archery it is very important to determine your dominant eye before you start shooting.
Anyhow...... hope this helps: :roll:
Most people have a dominant eye which positions a distant target with respect to only the dominant eye even with both eyes open[/b]
To determine which eye is dominant, point at a distant object with both eyes open. Now close your left eye. If the position of the object with respect to your finger does not change, then you are right eye dominant, and should use a right handed bow. If However, the object moves to the right of your finger, then close your right eye in the above test leaving your left eye open. If the position of the object with respect to your finger does not change, then you are left eye dominant, and should use a left handed bow.
So....a right eye dominant person should shoot a right hand bow, while a left eye dominant person should shoot a left hand bow.
However, if your finger moves to the right when you close your left eye, and to the left when you close your right eye, then you do not have a dominant eye. To compensate for parallax you will (as a rule) have to use some non-instinctive sighting method eg sights
This matching of the bow to the dominant eye is especially important in instinctive sighting as it minimizes the effects of parallax between where the archer is looking and where the arrow is pointing. :)
very long post alert! :shock:
Thanks Axe,
Though your arguement is very clear I am still not convinced. I am not overly convinced that past teachers of archery have really known much about skill acquisition, just being a good archer and passing on their way is more likely, and yes that will make for good archers too.
These two parts of your reasoning stand together I feel;
As part of skills learning practicallity, to hit the target would surely be one of the major objectives, or at least understand as to why one isn't, to this end eye dominance is a critical factor.
This matching of the bow to the dominant eye is especially important in instinctive sighting as it minimizes the effects of parallax between where the archer is looking and where the arrow is pointing.
The first paragraph holds true if the second is true. The second is true only if there is a parallax agreed, and that will happen when two things are occuring 1. you are not using your dominant eye, and 2. you are looking at where the arrow is pointing. (see the end of the post for a proviso on this and the alternative to Axe's meaning)
If you are not looking at where the arrow is pointing then parallax can not occur obviously. So then we get to what is left over of the question....
"if you are not taking notice of where the arrow is pointing while you are about to release your shot and it has at no time been part of your "aiming" technique, then is eye dominance a factor?"
it would appear from research on other sports (the research I found on archery being useless as none used any form of instinctive shooting) would suggest eye dominance is not an issue. SOme myths in other sports are being destroyed bit by bit.
http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content4/hand.eye.dominance.html
this one states that eye dominance is a factor in overall performance for right handers in a non aiming sport (ie no sights)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9852435&query_hl=2
this one debunks it with a more professional level of athlete
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9120206&query_hl=2
http://www.psychedonline.org/Articles/Vol3Iss6/EyeDominance.htm
and this is a hell of a read but well worth working through.
http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/articleeyedominance.pdf#search='eye%20dominance%20 research'
To summarise the above, eye dominance is important in an aiming sport - i.e. when you are aiming through an apperture or device of some sort at a target. Hence it applies very well to most archery, but not at all to instinctive IF WE ARE NOT TAKING NOTE OF WHERE THE ARROW IS POINTING.
What is very obvious from the last peice of research (where tennis most closely resembles instinctive archery) is that closure of either eye is not good, indeed this test was done with a filter and so it would correlate more with squinting alone not being good for hitting the target. It was however useful in some of the aiming sports.
I could not find any research of any type done on instinctive shooting, so we are stuck with making parallels with other sports for now it seems. In fact the idea of not aiming in archery seems to be forgotten. Olympic archers are noted to not use peep sights, but use point of aim and gap etc.
From a skill learning perspective according to my memory it is not needed to even think about eye dominance, as it is only with aiming that it could get involved.
keeping both eyes open and using consistant form you will get feedback, good or bad, from the shot. Your body knows it's alignment but you can help it learn better shooting by keeping things consistant and only varying one thing at a time to see how it affects your targetting (not aiming hehe). Then with consistant practice and concentration on the feel of your form (so your body remembers it's position of head arms etc) you should get better performance. That is a given in skill learning studies.
What is does not say is this, would a cross eye dominant person be better off learning to shoot with their off hand. It doesn't give a definitive yes (except for forms of aiming) but would seem highly unlikely given the above research. Just that nobody has tried that idea out in research either. But some research is more important than others - due to some answering the big questions and other research answering niggling doubts, or confirming things in a more controlled environment.
So to my understanding of it so far, taking Axe at his word (and remember he isn't 20 people in a controlled study so this is entirely subjective), I would have to say that being aware of where the arrow is pointing is in fact a form of "point of aim" practice. He would be right that eye dominance is a factor, as you are using something other than the location of the target and your body "feel" (called proprioception) to guide your aim.
Given the above, if you are not using the arrow's direction (or shooting in the dark at a lit target and can not see even your arrows shadow as an extreme example) then eye dominance is not an issue. You will need both open to judge distance, elevation etc anyway.
it does occur to me that Axe could have meant parallax between the "line of sight" of the eye and the arrow. A left eye dominant right hander will shoot accross his vision and a right eye dominant right hander will only shoot upwards to point on and then down. Both are forms of parallax but the crossed eyd dominant will be dealing with two forms of parrallax and the cross ways one is likely to have a point on issue much closer. But then with instinctive shooting point on is not an aiming technique is it.
The weight of data in archery backs eye dominance testing, but it is of no impact at all on instinctive archery from what I can see as the skill is different enough to make tennis and pitching baseballs more similar for targetting technique.
ahh c'mon coach it is not that hard! all those links I posted and wrote about ar not hard to understand if you take the time to read them one step at a time - bit like going to 3rd via second in your bus, if you go from first to second all the time you will wreck your gearbox :)
Ed,
Your too smart for me & it seems teachers, champion archers and zillion bowhunters the world over
Ed wrote
If you are not looking at where the arrow is pointing then parallax can not occur obviously. So then we get to what is left over of the question....
"if you are not taking notice of where the arrow is pointing while you are about to release your shot and it has at no time been part of your "aiming" technique, then is eye dominance a factor?"
AND
To summarise the above, eye dominance is important in an aiming sport - i.e. when you are aiming through an apperture or device of some sort at a target. Hence it applies very well to most archery, but not at all to instinctive IF WE ARE NOT TAKING NOTE OF WHERE THE ARROW IS POINTING.
Of course you look where the arrow/bow hand is pointing, what a ridiculous statement, to say otherwise. How can you shoot at something and not look where you are pointing? So... parallax does occur!
We could close both eyes if what you say is right, is there such a thing as BRAIL Shooting.?
To summarise & conclude: Eye dominance is important in INSTINCTIVE SHOOTING.
In 1995 I took part in an experiment with 35 others, re eyes & bows.
Rather than piss around trying to reinvent the wheel we went with what worked for us and most of the archery world ie r/eye = r/h bow
So Ed.... Lets just agree to disagree.
" Just do it " ,,,, Nike :D
WTF ?
I've done it, and I'm gonna keep do'n it, difference is, I'm gonna say nuth'n, 'bout how I did it, except for, "I did it my way"
How do you throw a rock or shoot a sling shot. Shooting a bow instinctive is very much the same, for me any hows.
doh, I meant from first to third coach but I am sure you knew that.
Axe I still don't get ya. You say practice by shooting in the dark and then say you need to see your arm pointing or the arrow pointing? I reckon you probably don't need to but use it when you can (in daylight). Whatever the way you shoot Axe, trust me I am not trying to change it :)
I was just interested enough to check it out. Axe always says do a google search. Biomechanics is part of my job, and to be honest this idea is a damn sight more interesting.
I think Adam summed up that research a lot better than me, how do you throw a rock? baseball? etc. damned if I can see the difference in that from instinctive shooting.
Axe I still don't get ya. You say practice by shooting in the dark and then say you need to see your arm pointing or the arrow pointing? I reckon you probably don't need to but use it when you can (in daylight). Whatever the way you shoot Axe, trust me I am not trying to change it :)
I was just interested enough to check it out. Axe always says do a google search. Biomechanics is part of my job, and to be honest this idea is a damn sight more interesting.
I think Adam summed up that research a lot better than me, how do you throw a rock? baseball? etc. damned if I can see the difference in that from instinctive shooting.
Firstly Ed, put ya Biometrics aside, optometry may be the thing thats needed here, or are ya pissed, where the hell do I always say "do a google"search?
Yeah Adam summed it up alright, don't generally throw rocks with both hands or by holding it near your face, nor any other similarity to holding & drawing a bow. Only thing similar is the word instinct, and if you can't see the difference, might be safer for those around you if you took up baseball..... then again.
Now... I don't know if your arms are akin to that of an uranatang, mine aren't, so even in the dark I can see the end of my hand to see which way the bow is pointing, guess what, it points at the target. Didn't say you had to be in a cave.
As for your job, good for you Ed, I'm a boilermaker, & listening to some heap of theoretical bull**** when the proof's out there, bores me, won't change my style of shooting & certainly won't stop me listening to those that do know.
Just to be real crass, I don't give a stuff whether ya get me or not!
The shooting in the dark works great, I try not to think about the way I shoot otherwise it puts me off :wink: . when you throw a rock you don't really think about your aim, you go on instinct and it feels right. When I draw back I have the same feeling and then release.
WHAT EVER GETS YOU THROUGH LIFE AND AROUND THE BUSH. IF IT WORKS DO IT.
The shooting in the dark works great, I try not to think about the way I shoot otherwise it puts me off :wink: . when you throw a rock you don't really think about your aim, you go on instinct and it feels right. When I draw back I have the same feeling and then release.
Tell me Adam, I know you use a r/h bow, are you right eye dominant?
I'm a rh shooter but left eye dominant?? it works fo rme but I have questioned and offen wonder if I should be shooting left hand, info
I'm a rh shooter but left eye dominant?? it works fo rme but I have questioned and offen wonder if I should be shooting left hand, info
Why change if it works?
Well there ya go, that's two, Mark Kimber is the same, and is trying l/h, says he does alright left, but not as good as r/h. So.... it ain't impossible as I said in some other thread on here.
But I believe certainly still well in the minority.
Yet you would use your right eye when using peeps on your compound??
Yeah I do use my right when shooting compound, I suppose its what ever you work towards or get usta. I can shoot left and right handed with trad but right is more comfortable. When I first started bowhunting I was shooting a left handed compound as that felt right. I worked towards using my rh as I am right handed.
Marcus is the man that could give you guys info on this.
Would Marcus know? if according to Ed the following is correct
ED Wrote:Axe
Though your arguement is very clear I am still not convinced. I am not overly convinced that past teachers of archery have really known much about skill acquisition
Wonder what the American Indians thought of this, Im gunna guess and say nothing, it never crossed there minds, only what worked :D
Marcus is the man that could give you guys info on this.
Would Marcus know? if according to Ed the following is correct
ED Wrote:Axe
Though your arguement is very clear I am still not convinced. I am not overly convinced that past teachers of archery have really known much about skill acquisition
well Axe I really pissed you off eh? Not even trying to, which makes it really bizarre. I never wanted this to be a pissing contest, or an IQ measure - for your info before I got bored and decided to go back to uni I was an unskilled labourer in Moomba putting the gas lines in. No toffee in my mouth. I then went and did ten **** years of bouncer work and got bored enough of pissed footballers to get a different job.
Have a look at what you quote me on there - I bet the indians, Welsh, Koreans, and Hungarians didn't give a rats watsit about eye dominance. I doubt most used anything other than instinct or some form of gap/point of aim. It is in the recent couple of hundred years when people started talking big theories and writing books that "the method of this and that" came out. Fortunately people have started to look at evidence on large numbers of subjects and as few other variables to see just what IS the situation. I didn't do any of that research, just the dum monkey that did the search, and if not always, your first post to me on this board was to stop being lazy and do a google search - lesson not forgotten.
I have no doubt you are a good archer as others here that know you seem to give you that status. Your method works for you, great. Neither of us would say there is one method only I hope. What I was looking for was an answer to eye dominance needing to determine sidedness when using instinctive archery. Being cross dominant it would mean shooting off handed for me ( I do practice it anyway). Thats it, personal interest for me, no asttack on you anywhere in any of my posts. If this upsets you then, ah it's not worth it.
Marcus is the man that could give you guys info on this.
Would Marcus know? if according to Ed the following is correct
ED Wrote:Axe
Though your arguement is very clear I am still not convinced. I am not overly convinced that past teachers of archery have really known much about skill acquisition
well Axe I really pissed you off eh? Not even trying to, which makes it really bizarre. I never wanted this to be a pissing contest, or an IQ measure
Have a look at what you quote me on there - I bet the indians, Welsh, Koreans, and Hungarians didn't give a rats watsit about eye dominance.
your first post to me on this board was to stop being lazy and do a google search - lesson not forgotten.
I have no doubt you are a good archer as others here that know you seem to give you that status. Your method works for you, great. Neither of us would say there is one method only I hope. What I was looking for was an answer to eye dominance needing to determine sidedness when using instinctive archery. Being cross dominant it would mean shooting off handed for me ( I do practice it anyway). Thats it, personal interest for me, no asttack on you anywhere in any of my posts. If this upsets you then, ah it's not worth it.
Yeah Ed, you pissed me off nuthÃ*n to do with personal attack, IQs or pissing contests. Merely the fact that it is an accepted fact that the majority of archers are R dom = rh bow etc etc., does this not then become the accepted standard as a starting point along with the rest of the accepted ìbeginnersî issues, ie stance, draw, anchor, release etc. I never said that cross dominance couldnÃ*t / didnÃ*t work, as it clearly does, at least one on this site I now know of ie Adam.
Similarly, as a side issue, I have one mate who shoots with an eye closed, must play havoc with his depth perception, but he is a very successful hunter. If I was asked if one should shoot with one eye shut, I would say definitely not, because this is not the norm, & in most people wouldnÃ*t work too well, but if it does work.Ö..
As for the Indian, Koreans etc, IÃ*m sure you are right, but I reckon they didnÃ*t / wouldnÃ*t get involved in a meaningless debate over something that seems to work for the majority
Re my telling you donÃ*t be lazy and look in google, I donÃ*t remember, I will have to look back). If I did this without offering you any assistance, please accept my apology, that is unlike me.
As for my prowess as an archer, who cares? ItÃ*s a mute point re this discussion, save the fact that I am part of the multitude of people that use what I will call, the norm / accepted practice.
You say ìNeither of us would say there is one method only I hopeî, if you look through my posts you will see I often state that there is a ìsupposed / acceptedî correct method, that should be tried by beginners, however at the end of the day you gotta do what works for you. Not only do I believe this is the case with archery, but with most things in life.
So Ed, as I said in an earlier reply, ìlets agree to disagreeî, if on nothing other than issue of parallax
BTW just looked re the "google" comment, found that on the 23/4/05, I responded to your query re string silencers. Not quite what you insinuated, so... obviously you've confused me with someone else or....
As I said, it's unlike me to brush anyone off that asks for help, especially in the manner you described.
I said Quote:
G'Day Ed, you might find that the rubber ones you have may not be as pretty as some, but be superior re performance, don't collect moisture, probably cheaper etc.
You will get most types from most archery suppliers. To look at some pictures you might punch in "archery string silencers" (or similar) into your search engine, you will more than likely see heaps. Hope this helps
Just checked, it works ok, if you put the above into Google, various suppliers come up, wiil give you a look at some others
Sc(+)pE
18-06-05, 09:22 AM
Sorry to ask an off topic question but you raised a point Id like to understand a bit better. Would you also recomend I keep both eyes open when shooting with sights as well or is this only applicable with trad bowhunting?
Sorry to ask an off topic question but you raised a point Id like to understand a bit better. Would you also recomend I keep both eyes open when shooting with sights as well or is this only applicable with trad bowhunting?
Mate, never used sights on a trad bow so I really couldn't tell ya. I know as a pistol shooter I blacked out one side of my shooting glasses, others at the club had both eyes open So... you may need to experiment, might be one of those, if it works best do it, sorry can't help you more. Maybe someone on here that uses sights. Might be worth you starting a thread asking what others do? :D
Wonder what the American Indians thought of this, Im gunna guess and say nothing, it never crossed there minds, only what worked :D
Reckon you are right, probably taught / learnt as they grew up, like some of us, then just did it, again like some of us.
Bet they didn't make half smart comments either and then ask the bloke next to 'em what arrows to use eh Adam, you know what I'm getting at :!:
accepted practice for the majority it is and all that long winded hard bastard research reading supports that too.
As you say cross eye dominant shooters have a different problem. If people like this decide to draw with their dominant hand then they will suffer from parallax. This is not the norm and so is where things like eye dominance gets tested for being useful or not - if you are not cross dominant then why would you be shooting off-handed? (except for maybe wanting to be ambidextrous)
Peoples bodies have a great ability to adapt to such things. Now I will probably bore the ass of most of you again but your body knows it's alignment anyway. Look up "proprioception" it tells you everything from how to scratch your nose in the dark to how not to fall over when standing or even sitting. This body sense is what I think makes eye dominance not such an important issue. Well it is not an issue at all for 80% of the population anyway is it, but for the rest of us that are cross dominant the skills of people like Adam and the research I posted links to suggests they shouldn't worry about it.
So you see Axe I am not even disagreeing with you - can't find one point on technique. As for archery masters, well they listen to those same researchers to try and get more out of the athletes too eh, usually ends up some bugger like me that passes it on to them. If you take the time to read that literature you will see there were moves by the sporting community at a professional level to try and "fix" cross dominance that was thankfully avoided by the research. See what I mean about modern experts, if left to them there would be some poor buggers out there with damaged eyes just so they could aim better.
jindydiver
18-06-05, 11:02 AM
Well this has been interesting, but there is something I dodn't understand. What diff' does it make what eye is dominant? If you shoot righthanded you anchor under the right eye and you are not going to be able to successfully sight down the arrow with your left anyway.
So, you keep both eyes open and you sight down the arrow (and not across it with the left) and let loose. It seems to me there is no issue at all. (insert smilie for shrug :wink: )
Ahhh Ed, we agree, we don't agree, I'm :? so....probably in the scheme of things it don't matter one way or the other, if we do or if we don't & as you say we more than likely bored the ass of most on here.
I agree with you, those that are cross dominant shouldn't worry if they are shooting well, but it is one of many issues to investigate if their shooting is poor... Enough of this
Find out what you wanted on string silencers, what type of bow do you use, been hunt'n / target shoot'n lately?
Well this has been interesting, but there is something I dodn't understand. What diff' does it make what eye is dominant? If you shoot righthanded you anchor under the right eye and you are not going to be able to successfully sight down the arrow with your left anyway.
So, you keep both eyes open and you sight down the arrow (and not across it with the left) and let loose. It seems to me there is no issue at all. (insert smilie for shrug :wink: )
Good on ya Jindy, you try'n to start this crap all over again, or just wandering off here like ya did in Mudgee huh? :P
Should have a yarn to Coach about why he brought ya back. Also, we get this dress, wear'n rights will have to be reviewed, following your comments here :wink:
BTW Instinctive, you don't sight down the arrow, :roll: and I ain't talk'n 'bout it any more :wink:
when you look at something you only see one picture sure, hold your arm out and you will see only one arm too. That is the image from your dominant eye. Now point and look at something further away. While you look into the distance you will see two images of your finger closer in.
One image will align with your dominant eye to point at the object and the other will be pointing off to the side according to your non dominant eye - try closing one eye at a time and you will see what I mean.
IF you are sighting down the arrow this will also happen.
jindydiver
18-06-05, 11:37 AM
when you look at something you only see one picture sure, hold your arm out and you will see only one arm too. That is the image from your dominant eye. Now point and look at something further away. While you look into the distance you will see two images of your finger closer in.
One image will align with your dominant eye to point at the object and the other will be pointing off to the side according to your non dominant eye - try closing one eye at a time and you will see what I mean.
IF you are sighting down the arrow this will also happen.
Ummm... I thought that was exactly what I said. You just ignore the one that looks off angle.
I don't understand Axe, when you say you don't sight down the arrow?
Surely you anchor it properly and then line up the tip of the arrow with a vertical line running thru the intended point of impact. You of course don't have to directly look at it, but you can still see it. Can't you?
And as for the wander, Coach is going to get mileage out of that for years to come :D
Bet they didn't make half smart comments either and then ask the bloke next to 'em what arrows to use eh Adam, you know what I'm getting at
If they had a sense of humour they may have, or had 5000km between them :wink: ha ha ha
With us asking axe all these questions we will put him off shooting :wink:
I don't understand Axe, when you say you don't sight down the arrow?
Surely you anchor it properly and then line up the tip of the arrow with a vertical line running thru the intended point of impact. You of course don't have to directly look at it, but you can still see it. Can't you?
And as for the wander, Coach is going to get mileage out of that for years to come :D
My focus is on the "spot", the rest is in my peripheral vision, different to sighting along / down the arrow. As for anchor, soon as my finger touches corner of my mouth I release, probably anchor less than a second.
Now I don't understand, been told that at Mudgee, (so it's only hearsay) whilst using your l/b you didn't come to full draw / anchor at close, because you said, that's how it's done. How do you sight down the arrow in this situation.
Oh no NOT AGAIN.
Round 12,
I'm looking at the animal all the way so as soon as I get to full draw twang. I don't look at the arrow but as axe explains its in vison I'm just not concentrating on it. I suppose you get so use to the way you hold your bow that there's no need to look where the arrow is pointed. Because it is instinctive doesn't that explain it all, instinctive, the body just does it without much thought.
With us asking axe all these questions we will put him off shooting :wink:
Hehehehe.... Only one way I stop, that be when I have gone to a better place, only then if there are no bows or there is nuth'n to hunt :)
jindydiver
18-06-05, 01:36 PM
Now I don't understand, been told that at Mudgee, (so it's only hearsay) whilst using your l/b you didn't come to full draw / anchor at close, because you said, that's how it's done. How do you sight down the arrow in this situation.
That is exactly how it is done........
After about 12 beers and 30 or 40 shots
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: it was a long afternoon
ohhhhhh the cramps.... but I would do it all again :wink:
jindydiver
18-06-05, 01:38 PM
did the little birdy that told you that story tell you how I beat him in the informal longbow round :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
made up for me watching him shoot groups with his compound at 48mtrs that I would be proud of at 30mtrs. :lol:
some extra thoughts on this. Both the exercises and the split vision thing (if that is what it is called) sound interesting.
http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/tf/lw/thread2.cfm?forum=23&threadid=121237&messages=9&CATEGORY=5
interceptor
03-07-05, 09:01 PM
I have just read the bulk of this thead. As someone said earlier, if it works do it.
I remember once at Gladstone I had just drawn on a 48 mtr target, set my anchor and was just steading for the release when Keith (KJ) said "hey Noel, do you hold your breath when you do that?". It completely threw me, I had no idea if I hold my breath at full draw. I still don't know. I still have a laugh when I think of it (you should try it on your mates).
My point is, sometimes it is best to just do what feels right and try and be consistant with cant, anchor, stance etc.
Just my thoughts anyhow.
Cheers Noel
barebow
03-07-05, 09:29 PM
I have shot barebow from day one in 1974.All I have ever done is stare at the spot I want to hit.I don't take any notice of the bow,arrow or anything but the spot I want to hit.
When I hunt and I decide to take a shot,my mind focuses where I want the arrow to strike,nothing else enters the head,I draw back and as soon as the finger touches the side of my mouth the arrow is gone.Doesn't matter what bow I am shooting that is how I shoot.
And when I hunt I try to get within 25 metres max. to the animal I am trying to harvest.That is my comfort zone and the stalk is what the hunt is all about to me.
Shot with an American longbow shooter many years ago and he told me if you become the arrow you will always have a clean harvest.I know that sounds like [Kung FU] talk,but I agree with it.
I have shot barebow from day one in 1974 You were hunting 6 years before I was breathing. Now I feel young :wink:
I have shot barebow from day one in 1974 You were hunting 6 years before I was breathing. Now I feel young :wink:
Man I was only just crawling at that point.
barebow
03-07-05, 09:41 PM
Mate I was hunting when I was six,headshooting rabbits with a Daisy air rifle and selling them to the freezer works at Texas.They were worth 6 shillings a pair and I use to set rabbit traps when I was seven,I had 20 traps I use to hang on my horse and walk around the burrows behind the house and set them after school.Check them before going to bed and at daylight and gut them and hang them under a hessian bag for the freezer truck to pick up at 9am 7 days a week.
If only I had a bow back then,wabbits everywhere.
Bowmancam
03-07-05, 09:43 PM
Would love to share a campfire with ya barebow, sounds like you've seen the Aussie way of life just how i like to imagine it. ;)
Cheers, Cam
I reckon you would have some good stories barebow, I hope you have some grandkids to tell these stories to.
Adam
In some ways I wish that I was born 20 yrs earlier, my wife says that I was born 2000 yrs to late :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: At least she lets me shoot.
barebow
03-07-05, 09:54 PM
Aw shucks fellas u make me feel like an old coot....lmao
I was just lucky enough to grow up on a property with a Dad that had the right values in life and had the patience to teach me as much as he could before he passed on.And I was willing to learn.
I have a 13 year old lad that refuses to hunt but will go into the bush with me all the time as long as he doesn't have to harvest anything.Hates fishing also.
My two girls are the exact opposite,love hunting and fishing.
Another reason I think you become a good barebow shooter is if you have used a shotgun or rifle without a scope before you started using the bow.
I have a 13 year old lad that refuses to hunt but will go into the bush with me all the time as long as he doesn't have to harvest anything.Hates fishing also.
Just flog it into him mate :wink:
I was a shot gunner and open sights shooter for a while, interesting.
barebow
03-07-05, 10:22 PM
My Mrs is a top flight trap shooter,constantly take 24/25,stopped doing it after first child.
Picked up a bow barebow and shoots it great to about 35 yards,to me that says it all about instinctive.
barebow
03-07-05, 10:24 PM
And he can hold his own with a bow if he decides it is worth his time.GRRR.
Natural talent going to waste but you can't force them.
feral66
04-07-05, 06:59 AM
There's a guy called G Fred Asbell who's written a couple of books and even has a video on instinctive shooting. You can get them through Black Widow Bows.
barebow
04-07-05, 07:16 PM
One day he may surprise me,he is one hell of a hockey player and an absolute whiz with a computer.
When he becomes another Bill Gates he can keep me in the style I wish to be kept.........LOL
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.