Multi blade heads

[howie]

In the last 10 months I have experimented with 3 and 4 blade broadheads and I would like to share with you my findings so far. I am not opening a tin of worms of which is better, just what my field testing has shown. The theory behind this was if a 2 blade head makes two wounds or cuts when penetrating an animal, would a 3 or 4 blade head cut half to twice as much tissue. I have not trialled mechanical heads, just 2 blade heads with bleeder blades and 3 blade fixed heads. I came across several MA3 (3 blade) heads, more seasoned bowhunters would remember these heads as they have been around for decades. I shot these heads out of my heavy bow at the sand target and they flew well. On my next hunt I took one along in the quiver. One afternoon found me on the trail of a mob of goats heading up into the cliffs to bed, the biggest billy was about 20 yards in front of me, quatering away. Upon the arrow impacting his ribs and obtaining full penetration, he made maybe 20 yards and folded. The entry and exit holes were large, there was no chance of the wound healing over or clogging up and it bled freely. It was like passing a hole saw thru his ribs, cutting everything on the way in and out. I then searched the internet and found the largest 3 blade fixed heads were Magnus. I ordered several packets of 3 and 4 heads. Several more local hunts proved that when these heads were used, the resulting recoveries and blood trails were amazing. A trip to South Africa resulted in several animals being taken with the 3 blade heads, the damage that was sustained when passing these arrows thru the awesome.
I discussed my findings with other bowhunters who have used both 2 and 3 blade heads. One issue that was raised was when an arrow enters the chest cavity, not only does the broadhead cut tissue,arteries and lungs, but the exterior air rushes into the chest cavity to collapse the lungs.
This collapse would be almost immediate and further serve the hunter by assisting in a quick harvest. So a 3 or 4 blade head would make a larger entry/exit wound - cut more tissue and allow more air into the cavity. With the modernisation of bowhunting gear, most shots on game get total broadhead penetration, with this in mind, would an extra blade or 2 make that much difference. I have used 2 blade heads for decades and they have preformed extremely well and I have no complaints with them. I have taken some photos of the wound chanels from my 3 blade heads, one in particular was an old billy, his teeth all but gone and his fur was falling out, the arrow gained complete penetration, no surprise there, but the wound was a tad smaller than my lighter in length. The 3 blades left a star shape - about the size of a golf ball, no wonder he only went 10 yards. With this kind of wound chanel, the massive tissue damage and the large amount of external air entering the chest cavity and collapsing the lungs, I cannot fault these heads. These heads work just as good on small game, this afternoon I whistled up a fox and a frontal shot at 15 yards, hit the heart and lungs, exited thru the pounch and rear leg. There was heart and lung on the ground and the trail was like following a wet dog after getting out of a bath, amazing. Now I have received good results from 2 blades but never the larger size entry/exit wounds like I have with the multi blade heads. I also believe that the 3 and 4 blade heads would make the difference when a marginal shot is made, having that extra blade could make all the difference. Something I read a few years ago and does make sense. Hold you hand up and make an OK sign or draw a circle about the size of a 20 cent coin on a piece of paper, draw a line thru that circle, (it indicates a vein or artery). With a 2 blade head you can pass the head thru that circle several ways without touching the line, with a 3 or 4 blade head, it will cut the line everytime. There is an old saying, "if it aint broke, dont fix it". If your happy with your set up, great - stay with it. But us bowhunters seem to have a thirst for more knowledge and information and that is why I have let you know about my findings. If we can improve out hunting set up for a more humane and quicker harvest, then I'm all for it. I hope you have found this thread informative and by all means - please let us know your thoughts. Howie

[HOOD]

Thanks for your thoughts Howie.
I will be giving 3-4 bladed heads a go soon as well.
havn't had any complaints with the 2 bladed heads as yet. But it's fun trying new things.

[No eye deer]

Good write up there,Howie.

I use the G5 Montecs. the other good things with 3 blade heads, would be -ease and speed of sharpening, and ease of set up.They do fly better.

Mark

[aussiehunter]

im trialing the g5 montecs at the moment..

they group well,and so far one shot one kill :)

interesting read howie

pat :)

[Jeffro]

available now
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/djjeffa/IMG_3225.jpghttp://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c290/djjeffa/IMG_3201.jpg

[Luke]

:lol:

Good plug Jeffro :D

Great read Howie, thanks for taking the time mate!

I too have some G5's that I'm going to be trialling on my next outing - will be very keen to see the outcome.

8)

[Dongles]

Good post Howie,

I have set up to try some 3 blade Muzzy's and Eastman first cut magnums (fixed 2 blade + 2 expandable blades) this year on Rusa (and others). My theory is to cut a larger hole to promte better blood trails.

Anyone who has hunted Rusa on the south coast will know they only have to travel a few metres sometimes into the lantana and they are near impossible to find.

I was using outback supremes and although they are a great B/nead I wasn't getting the cutting diameter I wanted, I have since switched to Hunters.

Years ago, when I was much younger and shooting lighter weights, I always used 3 blade heads and never had issues with penetration or braodhead performance, these days with high performance bows, heavy draw weights, the loss in penetration between a 3/4 blade head compared to a 2 blade head is minimal. I'm all for supporting Aussie braodheads (Outbacks, Blackstumps, Ribteks) and have used or use all but am forced to use imported 3 blade heads, perhaps someone can make a fixed blade 3-blade broad head?? Woody, if anyone could you could :wink:

[Hoyt_Trykon]

Great read howie,
Thanks alot for that information. I recently purchsed a few 100gr razorcaps. They're three bladed broadheads. Looking forward to giving them a go.

cheers mate

Justin :wink:

[Luke]

perhaps someone can make a fixed blade 3-blade broad head?? Woody, if anyone could you could


I'd buy 'em for sure!!! :D

[adam]

I have had good success with solid 3 blade heads, cut on impact type.

However about 6 years back I was using some three blade heads, The type that had replaceable blades, these heads crumbled on bone. And when they didn't crumble on bone they stopped on bone.

Since then when using 3 bladers I only use solid cut on impact types. Its easy to see that a 2 blade head will split bone easier then a 3 blade. If you hammer a 2 blade into a piece of wood it will split it very easy, try it with a 3blade head and it seems 4 times harder to get that wood to split.

Not against 3 blade heads, just beleave 2 blades are far more tougher on large game.

Adam

[frogman]

Well i trialled the eastmans cut on contact 125gr expandable this morning on red deer.18 yards quartering away at a steep angle 65 pound legacy 2117 easton arrow and gues how much penetration(3INCHES) what a heap of ****.I was trying to shoot a spiker for meat i could not believe what i saw,Fento W said he had bad penetration with these heads ,well its is a fact,no venison in the freezer yet.Im glad i wasnt shooting at a big stag or i would really be pissed,right on impact i heard a metalic click and then see the spiker run off with my arrow, this goes against what i believe. 2hrs searching not a thing im going back to my outbacks at least i know how they will perform.By the way i saw lots of hinds and spikers nothing roaring yet VERY HOT though.

[aussiehunter]

bloody sad news there mate...
darryl bulger has used the 100 grains first cuts and taken numerous reds and ive taken two rusa with them..

i know there solid two blades are good...taken bulls and boars...

but id have to say they dont look as tough as the montecs,or a good aussie two blade like woodys or blackstumps...

bloody shame..do u reckon u must have hit bone/rib?

pat :)

[frogman]

From the angle i dont think i hit bone,i think it failed in the expanding part.Pat i could have gotten more penetration with a stone.It is a shame i lost it, my vehicle was only 200 meters away with esky and ice could have retrieved it all.

[rinaldo]

I have been using the Slicktrick 4 bladed broadheads and I have found that the wound channel is huge; everything I have shot with them has gone down very quickly. The blades on the Slicktricks are interlocked so that cant come apart, great design and fly like field points. I am trying the Magnus 3 blades; they are a one piece design and look the goods I let you know how they go.
I don’t have any solid evidence but I feel that the game I have shot has gone down much quicker using the multi bladed broadheads compared to the game shot with the 2 bladed heads.

[howie]

I punched out the story last night and was interested in the return threads. As I mentioned I have not trialled the mechanical heads as I - to be truthful - have very little experience with them and heard/read some bad reports about not opening when required. I have seen on several occasions them stop with very minimal penetration. They might work with a very heavy bow/arrow combination. The heads that I have been using is the `160 grain glue on Magnus heads, they are the widest cutting head, (other than mechanicals) on the market that I have located. The 160's are a solid, in that they dont have any moving parts
spin straight on the shaft and sharpen to a razor edge. Something that I have experimented with - to a minor amount is using the 150 grain glue on 4 blade Magnus heads. These heads also cut a huge hole, similiar in size to the 3 blade Snuffers. The great thing about the 4 bladers is that you can remove the bleeder blades and use as a 2 blader. Shooting my bow on the target range at home, I have shot a 2 blader and a 2 blader with bleeders and there was no noticable difference in trajectory or accuracy. The bleeders weigh 10 grains. You could say carry a couple of 2 bladers and a couple of 4 bladers in your quiver and have confidence that you arrows will hit the same spot. The only issue that I found using the Magnus 2 or 4 bladers, they are very wide, wider than most other heads of the same description, so - was with any bow, you want it to be tuned correctly. The extra width of these heads, has not impeded penetration and cuts a bigger hole than other 2 blade heads. I am of the opinion that the bigger the hole, the more tissue damage, more blood flow and more external air collapsing the air bags can only reduce or decrease the animals recovery distance. Now with this said, I use a heavy bow and arrow combination and the vast majority of animals that I shoot I get full arrow penetration. In South Africa I shot and killed a Wildebeest, Gemsbok and Kudu with the same arrow/broadhead - a 3 blade snuffer. A clean and re-sharpen was necessary. That was really a turning point for me in believing that the stong multi blade, non mechanical heads are excellent in harvesting big game. I take note of Adam and frogman stating about poor broadhead strength, that is why I use the solid heads, yes - like any head they can bend, but they dont disinegrate. The less moving parts the better so nothing can go wrong at that most important and critical part of the hunt. One more point that comes to mind, I have heard and spoken to hunters that have had difficult tracking tasks due to limited blood lose, perhaps in pigs with their fat laden hides, or goats with very wooly, liquid absorbing fur. Broadhead holes clogging up has been a talk around many a campfire, with the heads that I have been using and the limited results that I have observed, there are no entry/exit holes clogging up, the wounds bleed very freely and most animals drop within sight. I am going to continue using these heads and I would love to see the Aussie broadhead makers turn out a top notch 3 or 4 bladers as I believe there is a good market here in oz. I would also like to see them made of stainless steel and pre sharpened. Yes the expence might be more to manufacture these heads but I for one would line up and purchase them. My 2 bits worth. Howie

[Jacob Goodwin]

Rin,

You might want to read my review of the Magnus 3 blade one-piece head used on pig. The heads flew very well and leave an enormous wound channel. However, their design allows the three blades to bend quite easily, particularly when shooting through bone. Effectively, this makes them a disposable head...a very expensive one at that!

Jake

[Dave]

If you register at this site Broadhead Reviews (http://btreviews.proboards57.com/index.cgi) he sends you an email every week to inform you of the latest test. Some very high profile heads have failed in the past and I believe it will save every one money in the long run if you are looking to try something different.

Well i trialled the eastmans cut on contact 125gr expandable this morning on red deer.18 yards quartering away at a steep angle 65 pound legacy 2117 easton arrow and gues how much penetration(3INCHES) what a heap of s@#t.
He had nothing good to say about these heads at all.

[howie]

Jacob, I read your thread regarding the Magnus 145grain head. I do agree that the Magnus heads can bend, I have bent one since my trialling commenced and smashed a couple on rocks. I have also bent Zwickey's, stumps, ribbies etc, I always remove the needle point which can remarkedly reduce the bend factor. I had no probs getting the heads to dry shave, I reckon they are easier to sharpen than 2 bladers. I started this thread more to get feedback from other hunter on their experiences with tissue damage than to judge broadheads on toughness. Is there a broadhead that doesn't bend? Dr. Ed Ashby wrote several articles on his many years of experience and collating data. These well written and documented articles are located on trad gang web site and are a must read for the dedicated bowhunter, a real eye opener. He literally disintergrates even the best known heads on everything from zebra scapula's to water buff skulls. Its a must read. Back onto this thread, I watched and filmed a impala ram water, slightly quatering away and a 125 grain glue on magnus snuffer centre punched his lungs and he went down within 100 yards - a perfect shot. Upon inspecting this broadhead, I found it was in perfect condition, but the overall thickness of the blades and the head design was of some interest. To get a 3 or 4 blade head to weigh 125 grains, certain things must be addressed, the major factor is weight, so there has to be weight reduction slots. The head cannot be too long or too wide, and the blades must not be too thick - as all these factors increases overall weight. For these reasons mentioned I shy away from light weighted heads of any make. As I have mentioned, shooting the 160 grainers, there is more steel in the head to make it more structually sound. Just to digress for a minute, in the last 10 to 20 odd years, the Americans have gone for all out speed, not only in their bows, but lighter, thinner carbon arrows and heads, you can actually buy 85 grain broadheads, now what must they be made up of, to weigh so little, carbon/alloy ferrules and ultra thin blades. What I am attempting to say is, its not whats in the heads that concerns me, it's what's not in the heads, what had been chopped out of the design, (to reduce weight) in their manufacture. We have followed the americans in the quest for speed and flat out trajectory. To gain this we must shoot heavier bows or lighter arrows. Some bowhunters that I have spoken to have strong feeling about not shooting light equipement, and in particular, light weight heads. Should we do a 180 and go the other direction and shoot heavier heads, manufactured with more steel to prevent any possible failures? A question arises, what do you want, a stronger, wider multi blade head that is more reliable with a slower speed and slightly poorer trajectory or an absolute bullet with a lighter weight reduced arrow/heads? And does this extra trajectory really concern us at bowhunting distances, 5 to 25 or 30 yards???????.
Shoot, have I opened up that tin of worms?????? Howie

[Hoyt_Trykon]

Thanks for that link Dave, will register shortly. And also if woody could make three bladed heads ill be allllll for it too!!!! :D

[johnno]

I too am a firm fan of the Slick Tricks 125gr for all the reasons as stated by Rin but also notwithstanding they present as a relatively small broadhead, as compared to the Magnus or the Razor caps, they are remarkably tough. As all shots with them, at varying distances, have been pass throughs and despite in several instances the arrows impacting with rock etc, the heads have shown little if any damage and in the main were still shootable and the blades still very sharp. Apart from some very dependable 2 blade heads I also intend to use thr STs on an upcoming Cape York hunt and will be very interested to see how they perform on the boars. :D :D

[Sagitarius]

The 2 blade holes are easiest to close up on keeper hides but I am lazy.

:lol:

[woody]

At some point I will look at a multi blade head, as there seems to be some interest in them.

It would probably be a four blade design based around the Hunter design as the main blade and a sacrificial removeable insert type blade that would be weak enough to give way if a heavy bone was hit.

I think I have enough strength in the design of the Hunter blades to drop down to 1.2 mm thick, which should keep the weight of a four blade head still around 125 grains.

It would also give a lighter version of the Hunter in a 2 blade.

I have more work to do on refining my grinding machinery before this happens so they are a fair way off yet.

In the mean time, the Hunter XL cuts a big hole, and flies nice too. :D

http://users.ncable.net.au/~woody/hunter_xl.htm