Camping in NP's

[jindydiver]

I thought there was a thread on this here already but I can't find it, anyway

Some time ago I sent a letter to Brian Boyle CEO of the NSW game Council asking if he could find out if the NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service would allow hunters who are using their Restricted Game License to hunt in NSW forests to camp in nearby National Park campgrounds and to travel through National Parks to their hunting with their firearms in their possession. Brian Boyle made that inquiry for me with Dr Tony Fleming (Head of NPWS) and I received a note from Brian Boyle today containing Dr Fleming’s response.
It seems that he believes that the very presence of a firearm in the vehicle of a camper in a National Park is much too dangerous. Remember here that I was inquiring into just camping, NOT HUNTING, and yet he also raises the possibility that a hunters very presence will lead to all sorts of problems; the release of feral animals into parks, the vandalism or theft of pig traps, and the escape of hunting dogs (not something I even asked about).

Beware that this is the attitude of the guy that runs the NPWS and if you camp in a park campground or have to drive through a park to get to your hunting area (and stop for any reason) you are risking having NPWS make an example of you.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/jindydiver/2007/25June07NPWSletter-1.jpg

I will be sending a letter to Dr Fleming asking him why hunters are not allowed to camp in a park campground because of his concerns for peoples safety "that may result from any wrongdoing or accident" and yet he allows participants that engage in many dangerous and/or risky activities to camp freely, activities that he allows these people to actively pursue within National Parks (I won't walk on others to hold up hunting as better, you can all think of activities allowed in parks that are much more dangerous for participants and bystanders than hunting).

Please note that when I say "firearm" I am also including bows as they are treated the same by the legislation.

[Antarcher]

Mick. In your letter you ask only about frearms, perhaps you should ask about carrying a bow as it is a legal weapon you can carry anywhere. Would be interesting to see what NP's say about them in a car whilst sleeping.

[ado250]

Seems like an excuse (almost recited) for a thoroughly anti-hunting stance. I think rather than say 'we disagree with hunting', other reasons (not so logical ones) are cited. :rolleyes:

After all, it would be rather hypocritical of a department who uses baiting, trapping and poisoning (all rather cruel compared to firearms/bow death) to denounce hunting and the right/great benefit of hunters to society and the environment. No, that wouldn't be right, not at all :)

Ado

[jindydiver]

Ant
My original letter to Brian Boyle (to be forwarded for comment from NPWS) included firearms, bows and knives (hunting devices as defined in section 70 of the NP&W Act).
The narrowness of the focus in Dr Flemings reply goes some way to indicating his bias inherent in his view point.

To be clear
If you are sleeping in a campground in a NP (or for that matter on the side of the road in your car) and you have your bow in the car with you, you can be charged in relation to section 70 of the Act. For a good while many of us were camping in Parks campgrounds (after all they have toilets and tables) and NP rangers have made it clear they will enforce the Act if they catch us there. My letter to the GC was in response to a warning that was passed on to me from the GC after they were told by NPWS that they would not tolerate our breaking the law no matter how benign our infraction.

[chugga]

So if i have my bow in its case and in the car boot and I am sleeping in my tent then I am breaking the law? This place is going to the pack :(

[topendbowman]

Yeah unfortunately this sort of moronic generalisation is not confined to NSW. Up here in the NT I got told off by the Parks & Wildlife Dept because I was camping in Mary River area, only camping while I had my quad bike in the trailer all secured and strapped up. Despite the fact there are no signs prohibiting the presence of quad bikes(was in trailer anyway) I was told by an arrogant public servant whose wages I PAY that apparently where there's quad bikes, there's guns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had no guns, no bow and was not riding the quad and apparently I am now a suspect "gunman". These damn public servans need to be told where to get off !!!!
In case you ask what I was doing camping with my quad, I was on my way back from a mate's property and passing the mary river area we decided to camp up and drop in aline in the evening, maybe get a nice barra..got nothing but heaps of mozzie bites...

[jindydiver]

When ****heads like that give you a hard time you should take down some details and send a letter in to the head of the department. I am all for rangers making an effort to stop different park users from ruining a visit by other park users, but when they go out of their way to be ********s you need to turn those grinding gears of government back onto them.

[ricochet]

Jindy- looks like the same will happen down here, looks like BARMAH forest will be made a National park, this will then mean no hunting, no cattle or logging, and the top of the tree, NO CAMP FIRES, Barmah forest has heaps of campers every year, this will now stop all the camping in the forest, but the greens are saying this will now open up the forest for Ecco tourism, what a load of crock.

Rick

[jindydiver]

G'day Rick
I was reading a bit about that today. I assume that Field and Game are submitting something to them about cultural and historical use of those areas by hunters.

I have some info here about returns to local businesses from hunters and from "eco" tourists and the hunters are by far the biggest spenders locally, a point made to the Government of VIC regularly, but it doesn't seem to be making much of an impression ::)

[RazorX]

I think it makes sense. He is just doing his job. If hunters were allowed to camp up with firearms then I think that the privelege would be abused. Fair call by him I rekon.

[rory]

Until hunting is seen as a really worthwhile thing by non-hunters then this sort of **** is just going to keep happening.

Just keep going hunting as much as we all can (not like anyone could ever stop you) and eventually (hopefully) enough people will recognise our worth;)

[ricochet]

G'day Rick
I was reading a bit about that today. I assume that Field and Game are submitting something to them about cultural and historical use of those areas by hunters.

I have some info here about returns to local businesses from hunters and from "eco" tourists and the hunters are by far the biggest spenders locally, a point made to the Government of VIC regularly, but it doesn't seem to be making much of an impression ::)


Yes Jindy Field and Game are now onto it, also other groups , the cattlemen from Barmah are that pissed off, they are saying that all the talking they have been doing over the past two years has not even been listened to by the authorities, they have tended to make out they are taking on board all the concerns,but their minds have been well made up, this decision was made over two years ago, to placate the local indigenous people, to stop them from continuing to lodge court action for land rights, ( our money paying for all this), so the government did a deal so they would not continue to appeal the LOST action on land rights, they will be given combined managing rights to all this land.

What annoys me is that there has been other areas that this Govdernment have made National parks down here, resulting in no camping, fires, or hunting etc, and then they sneak around and hold night spotting tours along the creeks etc, they have even had all this documented so as to show that there has been all these tours going on, but with their own people attending these so called tours, but it then gets presented as "how good are these national parks", we have all this activity going on, so it shows that we made the correct decisions. SMOKE AND MIRRORS, what this Vic government is good at.

I think i will close now as i am getting annoyed:)

Rick

[jindydiver]

I think it makes sense. He is just doing his job. If hunters were allowed to camp up with firearms then I think that the privelege would be abused. Fair call by him I rekon.

Are you serious?
How many GC licensed hunters have camped in those campgrounds already, I am betting you have no idea, just as you have no idea if any have even done anything stupid while they were there. A good number of member from this site have camped in a NP campground when hunting State forests and I am sure that NONE of them did anything stupid and I would like to know what makes you think that those guys would "abuse the privilege". What sort of things do you think they are going to get up to?

People who go out and make the effort to get a GC license are not the type of people who are going to cause trouble in a campground.

[Dartonian]

Razor X,
I dont think that this is a "fair call" at all. Did you know it is illegal to drive off road in a National Park? By your logic, we should ban all motor vehicle use on public roads traversing parks because people wont be able to help themselves. Should we ban any other legal activities based on the belief that ppl may not be able to help themselves?

As for Mr Fleming doing his job... his job is to manage a public resource for the benefit of all public users. This letter shows the depth of illogical anti hunter sentiment in (so called) environmental agencies in NSW. I sincerely hope the Shooters Party make good their goal of opening Nat Parks to conservation hunting. Once legal, I will take great pleasure in sending Mr Fleming a personal photo of myself in a Nat Park, bow in hand, dead feral at my feet and two fingers raised in the traditional achers salute, expressing my thanks for his support.

For those who know me... yes, it may be prudent to be wearing a camo face net as well... lol

Cheers
Dartonian

[jindydiver]

I too am looking forward to the day I can legally enter National Parks in NSW to go hunting, but for now I think I will be happy to see the policy changes at DECC that will allow me to at least camp with my hunting gear safely locked away in the car

[Rock Steady]

if hunters stay in the park fishing or sitting round a campfire, and their bows/ firearms are locked away i haven't got a problem with it but as soon as the bows/ firearms come out i have to enforce the law.

I got a similar response from a Ranger in FNQ when we stayed in a park for a weeks fishing before we went to our hunting property, most people know when to apply common sense in situations like these. But I can understand that not many if any Rangers or their bosses would put this in writing for legal reasons.

[Tj]

I think it makes sense. He is just doing his job. If hunters were allowed to camp up with firearms then I think that the privelege would be abused. Fair call by him I rekon.

You can't be serious.

In our legal system there is a presumption of innocence. This decision discriminates against law abiding licenced hunters on the possibility that some people, who may not necessarily be licenced and are definitely not law abiding, may engage in illegal behaviour that may or may not increase risk to the general public. Imaging the outcry if he banned drivers from bringing cars into the park when camping on the basis that some of them might speed increasing the risk to the general public.

We engage in a legal activity and should not face any discrimination on the basis of others prejudice, especially those who hold positions of responsibility in our society.

[Viking]

I'd like to know why it's OK to fish in a National Park, but not to hunt. Yes, of course I know the material differences, but from a legal point of view there really is no difference; either way you are harvesting a wild animal with man made equipment. Particularly if the hunting is done with a bow, therefore you don't have the obvious safety considerations, although I concede there are of course safety considerations with archery gear as well, only the danger to someone a couple of hundred metres behind the target isn't as great.

If I had a $hitload of money that is one thing I wouldn't mind taking all the way to the Hight Court and setting a precedent for. I'd probably lose, but I'd have a good crack at it, and it would mean that some definitive judgements would be made. There is a possibility that the outcome would result in no fishing being allowed in NP's either, so I'd probably be squaring off against the fishing lobby (much bigger than the bow hunting lobby) and the fishing gear manufacturers as well, so it wouldn't be easy. And if it did result in fishing being banned in NP's, the people who once migrated annually to Moreton and Fraser Islands to chase the taylor would probably migrate fortnightly to my home and put burning crosses on my lawn.

But I think there is a certain inconsistency when they allow fishing (which is still a form of hunting) but no other form of hunting. I suspect it's based on no more than the reasoning that "that is just the way it's always been", without much introspection.

But who am I to speculate?

Viking