View Full Version : Media misquote of Game Council illawara mercury/poor representation (threads merged)
Some of you will have seen the article in the Illawarra Mercury which seemingly atributes a comment to Sydney Game manager Steve Hurt that bow hunters are cowboys and that bowhunting is cruel. My name John Mumford, I am a councillor on the NSW Game Council as many of you know. I spoke to Steve this morning after recieving many irate calls, and he informs me he never made any such statement. For the record, I have know Steve and worked with him in the ADA for over 20 years. Steve has always been a strong advocate of bowhunting and is a bowhunter himself. I suspect that the comment may have originated from the other people interviewed for the article. I know from discussions with local police that the overwhelming majority of illegal hunters caught in the Illawarra are bowhunters and the local police openly refer to them as cowboys. I will be speaking with the Game Council PR people on Monday to get this situaion addressed.
Samba
Thank you for posting this up mate.
It is a very worrying situation that the police are referring to "us" as cowboys, worse perhaps that the people they are catching are exactly that and not real hunters. This trend or culture really needs to be dealt with somehow... :cool:
Cheers,
Luke
Antarcher
25-08-07, 12:08 PM
Apologies first to ozzyshane as I deleted his first post on this topic. Rest assured that I did speak to him first though and he will post his original comments below this one.
Now to the guts of the issue. Lately in the Illawarra area there has been a real presence of deer related incidents which has led the Illawarra Mercury, the local paper, to run a series of articles highlighting the issue. Unfortunately in the last week, bowhunters have been dragged in the problem and it is not pretty at all. Here is the article in todays paper, in full, so you can all get an idea of what is happenning. This will be a long, but read it you must as it could have a real impact on our right to hunt as bowhunters:
As quoted from the Illawarra Mercury page 30, Saturday August 25, 2007.
The scourge of landowners and motorists over the past month, the Ilawarra's deer population is receding backk into bushland.... but they'll be back, reports Michelle Hoctor.
The Illawarra's feral deer populationmay have retreated to the escarpment for now, but the region should prepare itself for an extra 1000 by Autumn, a Game Council NSW spokesman said.
Game manager Steve Hurt said this year's rutting season was over but deer numbers, estimated at 5000 along the escarpment, were expected to increase by 20% as a result.
"There are still a couple of fellas around, looking for mates, but most have turned their to the fringe of the escarpment looking to forage."
The Illawarras' deer are the Rusa breed from India (this incorrect, they are from Indonesia), with the females, or hinds, expected to give birth in late March to early April.
Mr Hurt said the good news-for now- was residents could expect a reductio in numbers making their way into suburbia and causing trouble as a result of rutting behaviour, such as congregating and fighting.
A spokesperson for the National Parks and Wildlife Service added that the new spring growth along the mountain meant householders were less likely to find the animals destroying their gardens.
Problems with the region's deer population began emerging three weeks ago after the RSPCA said it had approved a major cull in the Royal National Park. On August 5, Wollongong City Council said it intended to install deer warning signs throughout the city to highlight the hazards.
It came too late for for Mangerton father David Clare who criticised the council after his 16 year old son Eliot was seriously injured when his motorbike struck a deer near Figtree.
Three deer led policeand a shooter on a chase through the streets of Fairy Meadow on August 8, withone of the animals being destroyed after hitting a car.
At the time, police expressed frustration, saying call-outs for accidents were increasing. NRMA Insurance concurred, announcing the next day that Wollongong ranked second in NSW for vehicle collisions with deer.
Mr Hurt said the impending deer population explosion underlined the need to maintain culling programs. Three organisations have authority to carry out controlled culls: the Game Council NSW, National Parks and the Rural Lands Protection Board.
Since January 2005, the Game Council has culled 200 deer, which does not include the heavy culls undertaken in the past four weeks.
"We have beencarrying out culls in the region on a weekly basis during this time. These culls are still ongoing," Mr Hurt said.
On August 17, Wollonong council's Pest Animal Advisory group began installing 20 signs throughout the city, warning motorists of deer herds, especially at Mt Ousley, Mt Kembla and Figtree, where residents reported herds of up to 30 deer roaming the streets at night.
Brace yourselves for this part, it really stinks:
Wollongong Police acting Seargeant Gilbere Gassin said no accidents have been recorded since the signs had been erected,although problems continued with illegal hunters who were using the rising feral deer population as an excuse to slaughter the animals and take their antlers.
"Cowboys are roaming the escarpment, mostly with bows and arrows and wearing camouflage gear," he said.
" They are trespassing and basically being very dangerous in residential areas."
On thursday, he issued his first official warning to a hunter who was setting out from O'Brien's road with a bow and arrow.
"I told him I could have charged him on the spot," he said.
"From now on, the police intend to come down hard on offenders."
"Killing with a bow and arrow is a slow and painful death."
That is the end of the article in todays paper. Reports along these lines have been in the paper almost daily for the past fortnight. The cowboy quote was in last week also, but not the cruelty part. He also said that we are leaving headless carcasses everywhere because we just want the antlers. This was preceded by the old bowhunter rant too.
I have spoken with Daryl Venables and let me say that he is ropable on the subject. He is chasing it up with his superiors as we speak. There will be action taken and some of the quotes in the articles are misrepresentations so we will see what comes of it.
By the way there is nothing like 5000 deer in the area. Way less than half that.
This attack on bowhunting could divide us all. Break one part down, take out bowhunters from the game council and a heap of funds will disappear, leaving the other forms of hunting vulnerable.
So in essence we need to stick together on this and the game council really needs to get its act together if we are going to support them in the future. The current set up is not working and many are disillusioned with what we are getting for our money. Why are proffessional shooters being brought in to local areas for culls when no locals are being consulted or even considered?
Post comments here but know that as the investigation goes on some truths will be unearthed.
cheers for that mate i think all of this is bull y cant bowhunters have respect and wats with this "Killing with a bow and arrow is a slow and painful death."
how is that true yea they run for a few meters then drop dead if im corect and i dont get y they r calling us Cowboys 4 wat dose that mean well that my say in this
alex
i hate it when this happens its just people that have no idea
i bet when the culling was taking place not all of the shots were head or in the heart were they
now thats a slow and painfull death
belegstrongbow
25-08-07, 02:23 PM
G'day,
It's a thorny issue but I think hunters (especially bowhunters) have to be very careful about how they behave all the time, but particularly in suburban areas. People already have a prejudice against hunting but bowhunting can be seen as a bit different by the general public. Those guys who the police were talking about were obviously hunting illegally if they were trespassing and behaving dangerously on private land, so they have no excuse. Likewise the bloke who was busted walking down the street with his gear has no excuses.
The comment the officer made about animals dying slowly and painfully was made in ignorance but it shows how the man in the street perceives our sport. And let's face it, not all shots are perfect, even with a gun.
We have to take this on the chin, and I hope it makes us all think about how we behave when hunting. We are all ambassadors of our sport and we have to make sure we always give the best impression, so that we aren't labelled as "cowboys".
P.S. Thanks for posting the article Antarcher.
The mis-informed never cease to amaze me....
... the Game Council had better get their act together with this one!
Antarcher
25-08-07, 05:20 PM
Today has cetainly turned into a busy day. I have been receiving calls left and right in regards to the goings on. Firstly I would like to thank Daryl Venables and John Mumford for their support and advice. As for Steven Hurt, he has agreed to meet with us local game council affiliated bowhunters in order to sort out the issues we face. He had a long talk with a fellow hunter this morning and some in roads were made in terms getting our point across.
It is certainly true that some people have been doing the wrong thing in regards to hunting around this area, both bow and gun. If you look back to last year, the same things were happenning around the rut. I myself have posted in here about pulling up a few blokes who really were doing bad things. In this situation I feel that the whole hunting community, be it bow or gun, need to pull together in a show of strength. It doesn't matter who you are affiliated with, if hunting with a bow gets bought down then other organisations and pursuits will be left vulnerable and with less funding. It is a divide and conquer mentality that we are up against and we all know of the divisions that are set amongst ourselves already.
I will be actively pursuing this along with a few guys from around here who have vast experience in hunting circles. The immediate problem we are facing is how we are being perceived now in our local area. One guy has already had a landowner tell him that he does not want him back on his property due to comments in the paper. Hopefully I will not face this problem but I do fear that approaching farmers from now on, on a bowhunting premise, then my chances of securing places to hunt could be slim.
Another thing that irks me is the fact that my whole workplace recognises me as a bowhunter. Of late I have been asked a lot of questions and copped jibes around some of the things mentioned in the paper. What's worse is that I am in an authorative position and now there will be a perception that I am cruel to animals and this does not auger well when people are supposed to respect your role.
I could go into some of the issues surrounding the culls but this would just serve the pruposes of those trying to bring us down (the divide mentality) so I will refrain from bringing anyones efforts down. All I know is that many people have been put offside by the situation down here and it could be a starting point to go into other areas if these beliefs are pushed through as a general perception of bowhunting.
I will keep you all updated.
ozzyshane
25-08-07, 06:08 PM
John wether you or Stev where a were of the coments by the officer you are all GAME COUNCIL and had a pic in the paper (last week)saying that you where all working together with NP,PB,and the police .
The way the general public sees it now is that bowhunting is BAD it is to late to take back what was said by somebody that was done more harm to hunting in the last 10 years trying to be a hero in the local paper .
If the game council acted in a maner befitting there position and did a press release in a way to let the public know about the cull as an orginisation not just a few people looking to be movie STARS.
How is the GC going to sort this mess out every one would like to know.
Thanks Shane
I wrote a couple of paragraph comments prior, but this bloody thing always seems to cut me off from posting it........
Basically IMO there are complete f'ing idiots everywhere, and the tiniest of tiny percentage of which grab a bow and do dumb things. These people arn't the problem. It is that we all as hunters are seen as these 'cowboys' and no matter what you might do, be it legal and fantastic, or illegal and stupid/dangerous, we are all the same to the majority of the public.
No matter what happens in the future in regards to further restrictions to hunting or whatever, you will never stop hunters (by this I mean the real hunters) hunting. I for sure wouldn't just stop, now way.
So as a result more has to be done to get hunter's hunting, or the growing number of hunters, the growing number of (in this case) wild deer, are going to be forced into 'pressured' areas more and more..
I agree with belegstrongbow`s comments....but whats the way to stop it?
If someone gets caught hunting illegally, behaving dangerously, tresspassing etc, they need to be dealt with to the full extent of the law. That will hopefully teach them a lesson and may stop others!
John wether you or Stev where a were of the coments by the officer you are all GAME COUNCIL and had a pic in the paper (last week)saying that you where all working together with NP,PB,and the police .
The way the general public sees it now is that bowhunting is BAD it is to late to take back what was said by somebody that was done more harm to hunting in the last 10 years trying to be a hero in the local paper .
If the game council acted in a maner befitting there position and did a press release in a way to let the public know about the cull as an orginisation not just a few people looking to be movie STARS.
How is the GC going to sort this mess out every one would like to know.
Thanks Shane
Shane
Game Council did not make the comment. The issue with Rusa on the Illawarra and the illegal hunting has been ongoing for years. What has made it worse is the encorachment of housing into their traditional areas. The closer the houses the more the poachers have turned to Bows in order not to be caught. This has reflected badly on the legitimate people. Game Council is only one off a number of groups trying to respong to the problem. NPWS, RLPB and the local council are all involved. The wild claims as to deer numbers are not helping either. Where Game Council has programs in place we use local hunters and have removed about 200 deer to date. The problem is that other agencies are also culling large numbers and Game Council is getting the blame and therefore the bad PR in the hunting community. We also have some of the illegal hunters using their Game Licences to get onto properties saying they are official cullers when they are not. As for the image of Bowhunting it is not good because people simply do not understand it. What we need is an organised campaign to lift your profile. We shooters have done this and it is working. Problem we have is lack of representation by bow hunter groups in organisations like GameCon (peak hunting group for NSW). I will be happy to come to the South Coast and meet with you to start things going to try and turn around your image. Are you lot in?
Samba (aka John Mumford)
ozzyshane
26-08-07, 01:16 PM
John thanks for the reply Antonio rang me last night about the mater at hand and we hope to help out here.
John i think there is to many cooks in the kitchen all trying to cook the same meal all after the same $$$$ from the goverment and we as hunter are suffering because of it and bowhunter are being used as a scape goat.
Thanks Shane
Brace yourselves for this part, it really stinks:
Wollongong Police acting Seargeant Gilbere Gassin said no accidents have been recorded since the signs had been erected,although problems continued with illegal hunters who were using the rising feral deer population as an excuse to slaughter the animals and take their antlers.
I also believe there was something in that article about bowhunters leaving the carcasses behind that end up stinking.
Here's the thing that really pisses me off, my co-worker has met one of the guys up there who is a contracted shooter for this culling programme & when asked what he does with his kills, he replied 'I just leave them there'.
I also believe there was something in that article about bowhunters leaving the carcasses behind that end up stinking.
Here's the thing that really pisses me off, my co-worker has met one of the guys up there who is a contracted shooter for this culling programme & when asked what he does with his kills, he replied 'I just leave them there'.
Hi Miga
Game Council does not used contracted shooters. If the person your co-worker spoke to is under contract they were not working for Game Council or part of the Game Council cull. NPWS and RLPB are alo culling and they use contracted shooters. I suggest you take this up with them.
Samba
Antarcher
27-08-07, 11:38 AM
Thanks John for posting up on the issue. I have spoken to most of the guys down here and we are keen to meet up with you and get involved in righting the wrong. Look forward to the future progress on this.
We have also spoken to Steve Hurt and he is going to come down and meet up with us also. Atleast some positive should come out of all the negative and it will be better for future.
Why the hell do the hunting fraternity feel that we have to justify what we do (hunt, kill, cut up, skin, eat.... etc) to everyone?
Yes we kill animals, they die. We like to do this to them. We then take their antlers/horns, meat and skins (or a mixture of those). We LIKE to do this.
Seriously, just stop all the BS and say this and let the public get used to it.
The longer we try and justify ourselves we just prolong the anti's and arguments against what we do.
Because I guess, in the end Rory, it's the majority who determine our fate - and the majority expect us to justify it.
If we don't, then they can't even begin to understand. Things we don't understand, we fear. No one will condone something they fear.
I'm not saying I disagree with you, just putting that out there for thought.
Luke
Luke, yep, your thoughts I understand. But to be honest, and IMO ( ;) ) the understanding isn't going to happen, and I say this without being a pesomist.
For instance, America, the place where bowhunting is huge, has undoubtedly the most anti hunter's also. I feel that the crux of the whole issue is based on numbers.
Further, this 'fear' as you put it is a beleif. We are preaching to the converted. If it is the majority that rule, then the hunter to non-hunter ratio is just going to get bigger and bigger.
We hold values different from the majority, as do many groups in this country. Tell them we are different and live with it.
At the same time that we are trying to make them understand, they are trying (or forcing) us to understand, and it all goes round and round again.
Antarcher
28-08-07, 10:03 AM
If you break down peoples fears then they can be converted. I don't know how many I have met that have cringed when I have mentioned that I am a bowhunter. Yet when I break it all down and explain my methods, reasons and end use of the game then they are OK with it. When it comes to public opinion, I would rather a heap of people who are educated and understand rather than a heap of uneducated bigots who will follow the common belief put out there by single minded and purposed people.
For instance now, from the crap in the article, people will believe that we are painful killers if this is their first exposure to bowhunting. And tell me someone who doesn't know naive people who take what they read in the paper as gospel. Same as with the 5000 deer they say are around. There would actually be lucky to be 1400 spread over a 70km long belt of land. But people are going to say we better agree to kill em all as we will be overrun, and don't you let them damn sadist bowhunters near them. I wish to right that wrong and will take a proactive in turning that train of thought.
JMARCHER
28-08-07, 06:25 PM
Ant, good to hear you guys are willing to take up the fight for the betterment of bowhunting and archery in general.
Unfortunatly we have no choice but to justify and explain ourselves. As you said most reasonable people accept bowhunting as a legitment sport when they relise we do use skins and meat etc and dont kill just for the 'thrill'.
Jason
Antonio, mate I rekon it's great that you are up for getting into the good fight and putting your energy into it on behalf of all of us.
All I am saying is that we are involved in a pastime that does involve putting pain, or whatever they truely feel, onto the game animals we hunt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we aim for a quick kill, yada yada, but it doesn't always happen.
I feel it is crap that this fact is attempted by the hunters (us) to be 'not mentioned' when this whole deal is in the spotlight. We will forever be pushed regarding this point, and we cannot 'win' this part of the debate.
I'm sure we all hear you're point mate, but we don't need to mention it unnecessarily though.... do we...:cool::(
but we don't need to mention it unnecessarily though.... do we...:cool::(
My point exactly........................................... ..................................
Antarcher
29-08-07, 12:55 AM
I am not apologising to anyone as i have nothing to apologise about. This whole campaign will be about educating the uneducated on how safe and effective bowhunters actually are.
This is righting a wrong perception that has been built up over a couple of weeks in our local newspaper, which has tarnished our chances of securing properties and possibly losing the ones we already have. One guy has already been told not to hunt at his usual spot already after the owner read the comments in the paper.
I will not standby and let this happen to me or my mates or any other bowhunter for that matter. This is what the crux of the issue is, no arty farty fairy stuff and grovelling, just good old common sense to fight for our right as bowhunters.
By the way, none of us locals have ever cared much for this sort of stuff, especially me, but our hand has been forced on this occasion so there will be no hiding as this has not worked for us in the past given todays circumstances.
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