Ranch hunts

[kal_mike]

I just want to find out how you guys feel about ranch hunts and would you ever do one (assuming every one is well cashed up)? There is alot of debate on this issue in NZ but I haven't seen much here.

[troy]

Touchy one. IMO if hunting with Bow then it still wont be easy and you have a better chance of getting a trophy that will possibly be a lot bigger than a free-range equivilant. Still it's not always about the trophy size, a hard earned 'representative' free-range species would [IMO] be sentimentally more valuable than a new record book No1 harvested from a ranch hunt.

[Miga]

Whats a ranch hunt?

[kal_mike]

Whats a ranch hunt?

Ranch hunts are for animals that are not free range i.e. they are in a paddock of varying size. The animals have usually been breed and feed to maximise trophy potential. Often clients pay by the point or pay for a specific SCI category.

My thoughts on this are that it wouldn't be my cup of tea I am only interested in hunting wild game not in the ego boost that comes in having a massive trophy stuck on the wall. On the other side it can generate a lot of money in rural areas given that most people who do pay are wealthy American hunters.

I have no problem with other people being involved in ranch hunts. Also if people have done one how did it rate compared with free range?

[XTfreak]

And if the ranch was say 300,000 acres and you hunted the whole thing?
Would that be considered free range?
IMO it would be...
Bill

[NormGunston]

One perspective- consider these parameters; one chance a year to bowhunt, five days maximum for that one bowhunt and the strong desire for the likelihood of success during that bowhunt to be better than average. What can you do? One option is a fenced property. I took that option and am very glad I did. The number of animals on the property was incredible in comparison to what we see in non-fenced regions. Does the debate you refer to, kal_mike, surround the notion that "ranches" are '... like shooting livestock'? In my experience, this wasn't the case. The deer on the property I went to were, by all definitions, as difficult to stalk as any other deer; often much more so, because there was always many more eyes watching. But was it easier to shoot a deer on the property? In my opinion, absolutely YES. Simply because there were so many critters. A stalk scenario doesn't work out on a targeted deer? No problem, regroup and plan another. This is certainly not the case in other non-fenced areas where sometimes we are lucky just to sight a deer during a hunt. Free-range? Well, once away from a fence, unless you were in the corner of a paddock, it was impossible to see where another fence (i.e. the other side of the paddock) was- even from the top of a high hill. And I have been told that deer have a certain range; that they limit themselves to a particular area, depending on the season, feed and water and conditions. It was a very large piece of real estate.
In relation to scoring a big trophy, well as you stated, there are many who will pay lots of greenbacks, deuschmarks, pasos- money to shoot a head for the wall, and I presume these are the majority of the clientele for fenced properties. However these properties also offer the chance for kids and adults who have no other access to mentors to learn hunting skills, all breeds of overseas hunters who cannot, due to lack of game and hunting regulations, take game in their own country and those people such as myself with limited time (e.g. domestic responsibilities) to go and skewer a good feed of deer meat.
Having said that, another option is to take the five day, once a year parameters, head out to the scrub with the aim to enjoy the bush, hiking, mateship, armed with the attitude that "If I stumble across a deer/pig/goat/badger, etc, good and well, if I don't, I'll have had a beaut time anyways". Both ways work.

[hawkeye]

half the 'hunt' is doing the homework - finding game (doing the hard yakka).

the analogy is paying to pull a trout outta a pond as opposed to putting in the hard yards in the wilds trying to find those 'public' water fish. not only do you beat the fish when you get one of those trout, but you pip all the other punters.

i've no prob's with behind wire/paid hunts - but just don't get upset when i'm unimpressed with any 'trophy' that results.

i don't read BDU articles about paid hunts - find it as boring as someone holding up a big fish they got on a charter the skipper put them onto. half the work done by someone else.

[wayoutwest]

Hawkeye what about the people that dont have access to hunting grounds or have a bout its a bit hard to do the hard yards then aint it. as for paid hunts i will be going on one next year and if i do take a trophy home i will be proud of it and as for ranch hunts i hunt deer in NSW on 600 acres does that mean the trophy i take is just an ego boost because the property is fenced or the game is ''behind wire'' aint most of the places we hunt ''Behind wire'' to the extant that the only things that differs are the number of game.

remember thats just ones opinion

[Miga]

thanks for the explanation kal. I have no problem with people going on these ranch hunts, but I personally wouldn't do it.
Sure, i would be happy with a monster trophy on the wall, but doing the ground work & locating the game makes the whole experience more satisfying. Ranch hunting is just like paying for sex!

[Dale Furze]

Kal, I am one who is not interested in 'Game farm' (Ranch) hunts. I am not financial enough, nor have the will power to shoot an animal that is placed in a paddock for the express purpose of hunting. Now don't get me wrong, I know that most legit' places have BIG paddocks, but these paddocks have 8-10ft. high fences, to me, that constitutes a game farm with trapped animals. Paying a guide on the other hand to put you onto game that he has sole access to is a different matter all together, that I have no problem (again except the finances), if the game is free to come and go as it chooses.

I will not 'can someone who hunts behind big wire with a bow, that's their choice, they still have to get close enough to an animal to put in a good shot. Sometimes that is the only option for some people, at least they get to enjoy the thrill of the stalk and the end result (not all the time) of grassing a trophy animal. It beats sitting at home and watching TV;).

My 4 cents was a reply to some of the other posts here as well.

Cheers. Dale

[clint]

I agree with what most people have said. If you cant get onto areas which hold the game you want to hunt or you cant get the time to chance them then the ranch style may be the way to go. As far as trophys go the animals in the"wild" have had to deal with a lot to get to the age and size they have and this has also made them experienced and at times very hard to hunt.Im lucky enough to have rusa at my door step though the deer have alot of pressure with spot light shooters (no sport they stand and stare)and other hunters. There is a stag around 30 inch that i have been close to more than once on a property which shooters also hunt. This deer is that timid it amazes me if i get this deer it would mean more to me than its antler size.
I dont think the ranch is for me although the size of some of the red deer is amazing but again impressive but not really a trophy compared to the same animal from the other side of the fence. In my opinion

[adam]

Free open range bowhunting is what floats my boat. Half the fun is gaining access, scouting areas, finding rare sized trophys for an area. That may be a 90dp billy in an area where theres bugger all goats, or a 30inch billy were you have looked over a heap and never seen one of that size, there real trophys in my books. How about busting your arse gaining access then finally getting onto an area with game, put a price on that, some would give there bow arm ;) . Not bagging those that do hunt closed ranged but for a number of reasons it does not interest me in the least. But those enjoying that type of hunt good to them and it there right to do so.

Happy hunting, closed and free range.

Adam

[Darren S]

Another way to look at the payed hunt is you can learn more from an experienced guide in one day/week then you can learn by yourself in a year of hunting. Not all of us have hunting mates that can teach us in the feild each time we go out. A payed guide is payed to do just that. Guide and coach you through the hunt. Even archers who think they know everything about there intended species will often come away from a payed trip saying they learnt new things.
I have taken several payed charters impoundment fishing for Barra. Not because I hadnt caught a big barra but because i wanted to learn more tricks to increase my chances each time I fished by myself. Money well spent in my books.

Just my two bobs worth.

Darren.

[Antarcher]

There is a difference between ranch hunts and paid hunts. Paid involves being guided on to wild animals, ranch hunts involve animals that are hand raised in pens and then when they are big enough they are released for people to knock over at a price. These animals have not evolved in their environment no matter how big a place is, they are used to humans and often hang in close to where they were released. Sure some will breed up on these ranches and they may be wearier, but they are not truly wild animals. Yes deer have a range, but if they are being plugged in an area often then they would rather not stay there, no matter how far the fence is. I'm sure if that fence was not there then tehy would go somewhere else.

For me the notion of a canned hunt was summed up best by my mate Pete when i first went saw him shoot a deer. The week before he came back from a hunt with a rifle mate on a paid property. He went with him several times just to have a trip away and video for him. After a couple of trips the owner bugged him as to why he hadn't shot anything. He walked everyday past reds and fallow that you would die for. On that last trip he felt bad as the farmers main income was people shooting these deer and paying by the point. So he shot one and bought it home. Never have I seen someone so cut up about shooting smething. This rack is something to see. He gave the cape away and the antlers sit in his garage in a dark corner. After the thrill of downing the massive beast he got no satisfaction from the kill.

The very next week, we went out together to my cousins farm which had rusa on it. An hour later Pete shot a rusa spiker and it was my first experience at seeing a bowshot deer. The first thing he said to me when he stood over it was, "Now this is what I call proper hunting. This little deer is worth 20 of those big reds". From that day my opinion on penned deer was set. I still don't mind if people shoot deer on ranches, it is always good to shoot arrows at live game, but to me any wild deer is a trophy no matter the size.

[Puk]

I agree with you Antonio, that there is a big difference between some of the terms we are using. "Ranch" hunts, "Paid" hunts, and "Behind wire".

I don't like catching fish in a barrel, and wouldn't personally hunt an animal that was genetically altered, fed and bred for more size, or hand-reared and kept in a pen for me to shoot, but that is because i have a lot of access to "wild" game country.

The point i want to make is that i believe even these "wild", or "free range" animals are behind fences. Maybe not behind wire, but behind fences.

The one big property i hunted for goats was 330, 000 acres (2,600 square kilometres). The boundaries of the property were not fences, but salt lakes, they were just as effective as a fence. In a dry land, nothing would go out there. Inside of that, there were more "fences". It's called "a day's walk from water". They were better boundaries than wire. You try keeping goats behind wire: Good luck! But do you think a goat would go beyond 1 day's walk from water? No way.

Other animals are "fenced" by water, predators etc. On a Chital property i was on recently, you knew that the deer would be within 5 kilometres of the homestead, as the dingos wouldn't come in close to the homestead with it's dogs and guns, so the deer knew they wouldn't get such a flogging from the dingos if they hung close to home. etc.

the smart hunter surely learns where these boundaries are and uses them. Does that mean they are having a "canned hunt"? that's for you to judge i guess, but i am just trying to show that there are many "fences" that work just as well as wire, and we don't seem to look down on people who use them. Sometimes it seems that our judgement is made relative to the size of the paddock, be it natural or man-made.

One last gripe i guess: You hear this attitude that "My hunting is more pure than yours because i don't hunt for trophys, just for meat, skins, etc. Do you think that those people who say that could really look you in the eye and tell you that if they stumbled across a representative specimen while they were out, they wouldn't try to take it, for the wall, the record books, whatever?

I doubt it.:rolleyes:

Just my thoughts for the day,

Puk

[XTfreak]

There is a difference between ranch hunts and paid hunts. Paid involves being guided on to wild animals, ranch hunts involve animals that are hand raised in pens and then when they are big enough they are released for people to knock over at a price.
Well sir I tend to disagree with this statement.
It has always been my personal experience that Paid, Guided and Ranch hunts are one in the same. Ive been on many in different countries.
The Ranch hunts you refer to in the statement are better known as penned/canned hunts and you describe them perfectly. Ive never been on one of them but I know of places that offer them and I know people that have utalized them to take game.
Bill

[wazza_X force]

im with bill on this one...i think the whole connotation of ranch hunts may have been misconceived from the get go...as for which, i have been on a few for fallow and if IHP properties count, for goats as well... as for penned hunts, i believe that in certain circumstances i would by no means prefer, but see no probs with penned hunts... i mean if i was to be paying thousands upon thousands to go to say NZ for a wapiti or something, i wouldnt really want to spend so much money, go so far and come home without a picture, a rug or antlers and a great story to tell... and from what ive heard, alot of the penned places, especially for red/wapiti, pick and choose their gene pool amongst the heard so as to prevent any malforms or small heads to 'corrupt' the heard, so if you shoot a stag or something its basically guaranteed to be a cracker...

wazza

[STEALTH]

A very interesting topic me thinks.But what determines a canned hunt?Size of the Pen?Type of animal?How tame the animals are?How many animals are in the pen?
I guess the line can only be drawn by the hunter himself.
I believe that the kill is only a very small part of a bowhunt and to fast forward all the little steps how ever boring or frustrating they can get just to get a trophy on the ground, just wouldn't sit right with me.Thats just how I roll, Plus I'm also tight ;)

[bowhunting4eva]

to me a little 3x3 or 4x4 or 5x5 free range red deer stag is much better looking then a 10x12 fenced stag or whatever. i dont mind if people do hunt ranches etc its up to them but i like the idea of a free range pure wild animal in its own environment where it wants to be.

[XTfreak]

How many people here have actually been on guided, ranch, penned etc. hunts?
I will admit I have been on guided hunts in Australia, Germany, Canada and probably 10 in the US.
In alot of countries you must employ the services of a guide to hunt if your a non resident.
Bill

[GlennMac]

I have been on guided hunts but but not ranch or penned animals, free range animals